Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Madam Speaker, last Thursday in denying leave to proceed with the emergency resolution, a press release was issued that indicated that the federal government had proposed a $25-per-acre contingency plan and the provincial government had refused that offer of the $25 per acre. This was in, of course, a release that was issued by the Liberal Party of Manitoba. The Minister of Agriculture then stated in this House that if that offer has been proposed, I will fax this release and ask that this offer be met because I will accept it.

I would like to ask the Premier (Mr. Filmon): have we had a response from the federal government, and who was telling the truth, the provincial government who said the offer was not there or the Leader of the Liberal Party who said there was $25 on the table that we rejected?

Hon. Harry Enns (Minister of Agriculture): Madam Speaker, let the record be very clear. Some four weeks ago on the occasion of the federal minister's first visit to Manitoba and his meeting with me in my office in the latter part of the day, I proposed that a straightforward, easily understood acreage payment of some $25 would be better received and understood by the troubled farmers throughout Manitoba. Then a week ago Monday at a well-attended news conference attended by my colleague the member for Arthur-Virden (Mr. Downey), my Agriculture critic, the honourable member for Swan River (Ms. Wowchuk), I again raised the issue in the presence of the federal minister about a $25 payment based on unseeded acreage coming from the AIDA funds. So that is for the record. That was requested.

I was dumbfounded with the release that was put out by the Leader of the Liberal Party, but I did do exactly what I indicated. I did not even wait till the end of the Question Period. I slipped out during the course of the Question Period and faxed that release to Ottawa, and the response that I have received is that the federal government is prepared to consider my initial earlier request to base a payment through AIDA funds on unseeded acreage.

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Mr. Doer: The minister mentioned he is prepared to consider the original request of the Minister of Agriculture, something that was consistent with the resolution last week in the Legislature. Can the minister indicate when their considerations will be over, when they will decide, and when can the producers know, based on his conversations with the federal government?

Mr. Enns: That is a very legitimate question. We are certainly very much aware that that question needs to be answered right about now. The seeding deadline dates have come and gone. Producers need to bring some certainty into what is going to be for them a very difficult fiscal year, a year which for many of them sees very little or in some instances no income for a period of up to 18 months. It is my hope that announcements will be coming shortly.

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): A new question to the First Minister. An economics professor at the U of W, Mr. Cyrenne, has prepared an independent study that raises considerable doubt about the benefits to Manitobans of the frozen food initiative of the provincial government in many of our urban hospitals. It raises questions about the assumptions that were made by the government with the introduction of frozen food. It raises questions of the economics of depreciation, interest rates and other matters.

Would the Premier now tell us whether they have a business plan for frozen food, and given the fact that we are getting more information or getting more numbers from an outside study, can the government please account to this Legislature and table the business plan in this Legislature? It is taxpayers' money through the urban facilities. We are entitled to the business plan. We have been asking for it for months. Can the Premier please provide it?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): I will take that question as notice on behalf of the Minister of Health (Mr. Stefanson).

Mr. Doer: Madam Speaker, in the independent study, it raises the question of a failure to account for depreciation costs, and it further raises the question that the interest rates for the project are actually double-digit at a time when quite a bit less was available for the provincial government to proceed with capital projects.

I would like to ask the Premier: what is the interest rate for this project, what is the depreciation policy, and has it been fully accounted for in the so-called business plan that this Legislature is not seeing?

Mr. Filmon: I have not seen the review that the member refers to from Professor Cyrenne, so I will take that question as notice on behalf of the Minister of Health.

Mr. Doer: I am advised that, on cable television, last week, the Premier stated, and I quote: we will be making millions of dollars off of this project.

How can the Premier make these statements when we have not seen a business plan? It was a $2.5-million overrun last year at minimum. How can he make political statements if he cannot produce the facts in this Chamber?

Mr. Filmon: I did not say that I could not produce the facts. I said I had not seen Professor Cyrenne's analysis. I said I would take that question as notice on behalf of the Minister of Health.

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Mr. Tim Sale (Crescentwood): Madam Speaker, in Professor Cyrenne's study, he cites evidence that the maximum capacity of the planned facility is only 8,700 meals a day, and yet USSC provided him with data that showed that they needed approximately 11,000 meals a day. How does the Premier account for his approval of a business plan on a project which is built at 30 percent under the required capacity before even the new personal care homes are built? He approved the plan; how does he account for that?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Speaker, the member opposite plays loosely with facts and reality and often the truth, so I would be very cautious of him to talk about who approved what. The reality is that the USSC is the creature of the hospital system of Winnipeg, and it has the sole authority to come up with these plans and approve them.

Mr. Sale: Madam Speaker, in last year's Estimates, the then Minister of Health told the critic that the business plan had to be reviewed, that it was a mess, that it was not adequate. The Premier knows that. Why will he not table the new business plan today?

Mr. Filmon: Madam Speaker, I will take that question as notice on behalf of the Minister of Health.

Mr. Sale: Given that there are clearly no savings to be had, as Professor Cyrenne has shown, given that the Minister of Health has the information, has the budget figure, has the mortgage figure, has the capital, why will the Premier not cause to be tabled today the information that Manitobans deserve: what did we borrow; how much did it cost?

Mr. Filmon: Madam Speaker, I will take that question as notice on behalf of the Minister of Health.

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Madam Speaker, my question is to the First Minister. I had occasion today to visit the Maples Personal Care Home to attend, to visit inside, to take a look around. It is startling to me that this private-run, profit-making home, which pays its workers what it pays its workers, would offer, on the weekend, huge wage increases to people to come in and work in this home. I am very concerned about the management of this home and the fact that they are putting in jeopardy the safety and the well-being of 200 residents who cannot speak for themselves.

I would like to ask the Premier: what steps will he take to ensure that these people get the kind of care that they need and deserve?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Speaker, because we are always concerned to ensure that all of the people for whom we are responsible in our various institutions are properly cared for, I know that the Department of Health will be monitoring that situation, and certainly I would expect that, should there be any risk that the member is talking about, the Department of Health will take action.

Mr. Chomiak: I will pose to the Premier a question that a resident asked me to pose to the Premier. She took me to a room and said: This woman has not been out of her bed for two days; will you ask the Premier or the Minister of Health (Mr. Stefanson) to do something to protect these people?

Mr. Filmon: Madam Speaker, I will ensure that the Department of Health is monitoring the situation carefully and that they are able to ensure that the health and safety of the individuals who are involved there is paramount in their consideration.

Mr. Chomiak: My final supplementary to the Premier is: will the Premier do more, given that this home is a hundred percent financed by the public or by taxpayers, and these 200 residents have no voice? Will the Premier or the Minister of Health step in, take specific direct action to ensure that these people get the care that they need and deserve?

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Mr. Filmon: Madam Speaker, where action has been required in the past, it has been taken. I will undertake to ensure that the Department of Health ensures that that happens in these circumstances.

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Madam Speaker, the Premier, no doubt, had occasion to review the paper this weekend and hear about the situation where foreign Canadian doctors are being forced to take legal action against the province in order to have the right to practise medicine. Can the Premier please advise me whatever happened to the plan that we sent to the Premier and the Minister of Health–to the Minister of Health almost two years ago, specifically outlining a plan to have these doctors practise in Manitoba and to which we received no reply? And, had you responded at that time, these doctors would be functioning in Manitoba today.

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Speaker, I will take that question as notice on behalf of the Minister of Health (Mr. Stefanson).

Mr. Chomiak: Madam Speaker, can the Premier explain how it is that foreign doctors are forced to take a step of taking the government to court when we outlined a specific three-point plan that, had the government considered it and followed it, those very doctors would not only not need court action today but would be working where we need doctors in Manitoba? Can the Premier explain that in this era of the Premier trying to remedy health care?

Mr. Filmon: Madam Speaker, I know one thing, and that is that most Manitobans would not want to have the government or a political person, even one as knowledgeable as the member for Kildonan, deciding who is qualified and who is not qualified to practise medicine in this province. That is why, under many different administrations, including New Democratic administrations, the complete jurisdiction for licensing of physicians has remained with the College of Physicians and Surgeons.

If the member for Kildonan is now suggesting that he and his colleagues in the New Democratic Party in future are going to change that so that they decide who is licensed to practise in the province of Manitoba, I would have great concerns about that, Madam Speaker. I would have tremendous concerns about that, and I think most Manitobans would as well.

Mr. Chomiak: Madam Speaker, if the Premier understood the issue and the proposal we made almost two years ago, he would recognize that we asked the province to fund additional residency positions to allow these people to have residency in order to practise medicine. So would the Premier please consider that, which is provincial jurisdiction?

Mr. Filmon: Madam Speaker, as the member may know, many of these people who came to this province, either as refugees or under family sponsorship, predated our government and have been on the list for a considerable length of time as foreign-trained doctors who were not recruited here and who did not meet the standards and the requirements of the College of Physicians and Surgeons. These people, many of them, were on that list when the New Democrats were in power, and they did not have a solution to the problem in those days.

Our government continues to–[interjection] See, the member for Crescentwood (Mr. Sale) says they did not have a shortage. I can remember throughout the time when I was Leader of the Opposition, in the '80s, meeting with people over and over and over again in the rural parts of this province who were facing doctor shortages under the New Democratic Party government of that day. So the member for Crescentwood has selective memory. In fact, he has creative memory. He recreates the past in order to try and justify his political positions.

I can tell you, Madam Speaker, he is just as wrong about this as he is about most things that he brings to this House, and he can go on chirping from his seat because all he does is add fuel to the fire of lack of credibility when he comes here. So I say to you that these issues are matters that we have to work in concert with the College of Physicians and Surgeons because they are solely responsible, they have the sole jurisdiction for licensing of doctors in our province. We will continue to work with the college to ensure that we seek ways in which we can ensure fairness and ensure access to different opportunities for these people to qualify for practice if they are indeed capable of qualifying for practice. It is in our interest to make those opportunities available, and so certainly I know that the Minister of Health (Mr. Stefanson) will pursue that matter vigorously.

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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Madam Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Agriculture. Last Thursday what we saw was a shameful attempt of politicization where this government had the tenacity to bring in a resolution without asking for all-party support, and they did not have the tenacity to present the resolution, to consult, to work with the Liberal Party in developing a resolution that could have represented the best interests of the farmers of Manitoba.

My question is to the Minister of Agriculture. In that resolution this government commits to $60-an-acre seeding coverage. Are we now to assume that this government is prepared to commit to $35 for every unseeded acre? Is that what this Minister of Agriculture is telling rural Manitoba farmers today?

Hon. Harry Enns (Minister of Agriculture): I do genuinely believe the honourable member for Inkster got out of the wrong side of bed this morning. I am at loss to respond to those kinds of questions. First of all, we are offering a $10-an-acre Custom Seeding Program to the producers, not $60 or $30 or some other figure. We are doing that because in the 1997 election the federal government offered that same kind of program for the Red River Valley farmers and paid for it, I might add, a hundred percent in the Red River Valley. We have offered that program in the hopes that the federal government will share and take up their responsibility.

Mr. Lamoureux: Madam Speaker, I ask the Minister of Agriculture: how dare the Minister of Agriculture introduce a resolution that says $50 to $60 per acre unseeded when he knows the federal government was looking at $25? Was he telling Manitobans that he was committing to $30, $35 an acre? The farmers have a right to know that. What is the government of Manitoba prepared to do to stand up for our farmers?

Mr. Enns: Madam Speaker, to all of my friends in the Liberal Party: let us get it right. It was the member for Arthur-Virden (Mr. Downey) that introduced the resolution, not myself. It was seconded by the member for Swan River (Ms. Wowchuk). So let us understand what resolution we are talking about. Had the representatives of the Liberal Party had enough understanding, had enough respect for Manitoba farmers, we would have had a thorough debate about the issue here in this Chamber.

Mr. Lamoureux: Madam Speaker, I look to the Premier and ask the Premier to acknowledge: if you want to have an all-party resolution passed in this Chamber, it pays if in fact you consult with all three political parties in advance so we can build a resolution to represent all farmers in Manitoba when we go to Ottawa to lobby for their interests. Will the Premier at least acknowledge that he made a mistake by not working with all parties in this Chamber in bringing forward a positive resolution?

Hon. Darren Praznik (Government House Leader): Madam Speaker, as government House leader, I can tell the member I understand fully that events in his own life occupied his time and mine over the last few days, and we understand that. But I indicate to the member that when the idea came forward, I think on Wednesday, the member for Arthur-Virden (Mr. Downey) indicated some interest. I spoke briefly with the member for Swan River (Ms. Wowchuk). I said: Let us put something together so we could work with it. The member worked on a draft. It was shared with his colleague earlier that day. He did have an opportunity to see a draft, as did members of the opposition. Comments were invited. But let us understand very clearly, the Leader of the Liberal Party instructed his member of this Legislature to deny this Legislature even the chance to debate the issue, and that is what the Liberal Party of eastern Canada will have to answer for.

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Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (Swan River): Madam Speaker, the plight of the farmers in the southwestern part of the province is very serious, and it is really too bad that we did not have the ability to debate this issue last Friday, and the member for Inkster (Mr. Lamoureux) maybe could have understood the issue. But the member for The Maples (Mr. Kowalski) did consult with his Leader, and Dr. Jon Gerrard was the one that instructed them not to have this debate.

Aside from that, Madam Speaker, I would like to ask the Minister of Agriculture: given the confusion we have around the acreage payment, I would like to ask him if he can clarify this problem and tell us, since farmers are asking for $50 an acre for unseeded acreage–the province has put on $25 an acre; it seems like the federal government is committed now–is the federal government committed to another $25 an acre or are they just planning to share your $25 an acre? Is there a $50 acreage payment for unseeded acreage on the table now?

Hon. Harry Enns (Minister of Agriculture): Madam Speaker, I certainly do not wish to avoid or evade the question that the honourable member for Swan River puts. A similar question was put by the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Doer) somewhat earlier in the Question Period. All efforts are being made to bring to a speedy conclusion the overall aid package that my government is putting forward. Understandably, it takes a considerable amount of negotiations, portions of it that require federal co-operation and federal funding. Those discussions are taking place on an urgent basis right now, and it is my hope that within a very short while some specific announcements will be made.

Ms. Wowchuk: Madam Speaker, I would like to ask the Minister of Agriculture again: when the government announced the extension to crop insurance and offered $10 an acre for custom seeding, many farmers had already taken the initiative to rent equipment to try to get their crop in by the deadline. People like Mr. Ben Martens of Boissevain is one of those farmers, and his hardship is no less than those who have not been able to seed in the southwest region of the province. I would like to ask the minister: is the $10-an-acre custom seed retroactive to those people who seeded before the announcement, or is it just for those people who could not get on the land after the deadlines were extended?

Mr. Enns: Madam Speaker, I think what is important to note is that it is extremely important for governments, and particularly in this instance my shop, the Department of Agriculture, along with the other departments that are involved, to stop and to listen, to listen to what is the real need out there. We are doing that. I think, accompanied by the Premier (Mr. Filmon) and several of the ministers responsible for specific portions of the program, we will be travelling to Brandon tonight to further meet with the farm leaders and Chambers of Commerce that are all feeling the effect of this major, major economic disaster that is facing us in the province.

So we are listening and getting some responses, including on the issue that the honourable member raises with respect to, is there some flexibility on the seeding day? I acknowledge that the announcement of the custom seeding date was somewhat late in the day. It is being seriously considered whether or not we can move that date backwards to acknowledge what the honourable member brings to my attention.

Mr. Gord Mackintosh (St. Johns): To the Justice minister. Both the minister and myself have now been told by the minister's deputy that the report from Leonard Doust regarding the basis for criminal charges following the vote-rigging inquiry that was due June 30 has now been delayed. Mr. Doust, I understand, has requested an extension of one month, to July 31, because he had not yet completed his work, and the deputy has agreed to that extension.

I will just table, in the interests of transparency, the correspondence provided by the deputy, and I thank the deputy for that information. It also deals with questions that were raised in the course of Estimates.

My question to the minister is: is he aware, through his deputy or otherwise, of any reason or any anticipation of further delays in this matter in getting a report to the deputy and to Manitobans?

Hon. Vic Toews (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): After, I believe it was Estimates, the other day, the deputy indicated to me that in fact he had received some contact with Mr. Doust. I indicated to him that it would not be appropriate for me to hear any more about the situation. What the member has tabled now is exactly everything that I know about the situation.

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Ms. Jean Friesen (Wolseley): My question is for the Minister of Education.

Madam Speaker, this government's educational policy has reduced the teaching across the province in industrial arts, home economics, music, French and physical education. Yet the government is clearly prepared to have 20 to 30 minutes of every child's day in some school divisions to be spent watching a packaged program which includes daily commercial material.

I want to ask the minister whether he has yet reviewed the demonstration tapes from the YNN network, and does he believe that these are in accordance with Manitoba's educational practices?

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Education and Training): I take issue with the earlier part of the honourable member's question. This government has felt that an overall education is very important to our children but that we need to put good emphasis on the core subjects of math, English language arts, science and social studies, that there be good curriculum backing them up, and that there be a testing regime to ensure that we are meeting the goals that we are establishing for ourselves.

That being said, Madam Speaker, I have indeed reviewed the material referred to by the honourable member, and I remain quite satisfied that school divisions are rightly empowered and appropriately empowered to make decisions about issues such as the one she raises in their communities in consultation with teachers and parents in their divisions.

Ms. Friesen: I would like to ask the minister, who is now clearly prepared to allow 10-year-olds to watch commercial television as part of their Manitoba educational experience, whether he is prepared to conduct any evaluation of the prospect of 10-year-olds being told to sit down, not open your books, but watch this commercial. Because that is what is happening.

Mr. McCrae: Madam Speaker, again, the honourable member forgets that there are elected people responsible for the administration of school board-related matters, this being one of them. I guess, since the honourable member has asked me questions about this before, and I have answered for my part, perhaps for her part she could answer for her party on what their position is with respect to respecting the autonomy of the elected school division representatives across our province.

It is my view that, especially since this government has strengthened parent councils across Manitoba, parent councils working with school divisions can work out whatever needs to be worked out. I am satisfied and very hopeful that school divisions and the proponent, in this case the Athena company, will do the right thing for the children in our school divisions.

Ms. Friesen: Well, I would like to ask the minister, who seemed prepared to evade his responsibility for curricula in Manitoba, whether he is prepared to introduce educational guidelines to ensure that students critically evaluate the purpose, the images, the subliminals, the message of these commercial advertisements if that is to be part of a Manitoba educational experience.

Mr. McCrae: It is true to form for the NDP to think that they know best, that Big Brother is always watching out for us and our children, but that does not give me very much comfort because, just as the honourable member wants me to play Big Brother and bring forward the philosophical things that the New Democrats believe in, I would have concern about any possibility of honourable members opposite filling the heads of our young people with some of their doctrine.

Ms. Friesen: Madam Speaker, I wonder if you could direct the minister to answer the question which dealt clearly with the critical evaluation used in schools to evaluate commercial television. Will he answer that question? Is he prepared to take accountability and be responsible for curriculum and for teaching in Manitoba?

Madam Speaker: The honourable Minister of Education and Training, on the same point of order.

Mr. McCrae: Madam Speaker, the honourable member clearly does not have a point of order here. She continues to use, under the guise of a point of order, the opportunity to put across the philosophy and the doctrine of the New Democrats. We know that their code of ethics says that to each according to what he needs and from each according to his ability. We know that is in there in their code of ethics. We have heard about that before, too.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. On the point of order raised by the honourable member for Wolseley, with the greatest respect to the Minister of Education and Training, I believe she did have a point of order, and I would ask the honourable minister to respond to the question asked.

Mr. McCrae: Well, Madam Speaker, I of course respect the ruling that you have made and, to get straight to the point, I am sure that school divisions are in a strong position to evaluate what is going on day by day in their schools across Manitoba.

Mr. Gord Mackintosh (St. Johns): Madam Speaker, to the Minister of Justice. Further to our information about this gang hotline that is checked every five months or so and the Youth Advisory Council that does not exist, the boot camps that do not exist, the government latterly announced before the last election that, if elected, it would publish the names of johns who preyed on child prostitutes. Now that puts the "t" in tough, does it not? I wonder, from the minister, how that program is going. I just wonder where the names were published and how many names have been published.

Hon. Vic Toews (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Madam Speaker, as the member is aware, consequently, after this government being re-elected for its third term, that issue was in fact considered by the department. As the member will no doubt recall, as the House will no doubt recall, the issue of publication was made difficult in view of the fact that the government does not control the media. The media is independent of government–

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Madam Speaker: Order, please.

Mr. Toews: Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Subsequently, the government wanted to ensure that there was some way of ensuring that the public was protected, and one of the mechanisms that was developed was the Child Abuse Registry, which is a very important function, serves a very important function in that respect. Indeed, our Family Services Act was amended to ensure that those types of individuals were in fact named as falling within the definition of abusers.

Mr. Mackintosh: Would the minister, who has just confirmed that zero names have been published–he talks about some other promise that they made–would he tell Manitobans and 'fess up now that this government made a promise that it has not kept? The promise was bogus. Why would we believe them again?

Mr. Toews: No, Madam Speaker, the promise was not a bogus one. I think that this government has attempted very sincerely to ensure that the intent of that promise was carried out in an effective manner.

As indicated, my colleague the Minister of Family Services (Mrs. Mitchelson) brought forward amendments to The Child and Family Services Act which, in fact, ensured that people who engage in that type of conduct are placed on the list for the Child Abuse Registry, and that in fact does serve to protect the public. If there are other steps that can be taken, my department is continuing to review that situation, and indeed there may be other solutions to that issue.

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Mr. Mackintosh: Would the minister who has just confirmed that the number of names published is one big zero, Madam Speaker, would he also tell us what of those other pre-election tough-on-crime promises and the status of it, when they said that, if elected, the government would also require these johns to undergo the same treatment as child abusers? I just wonder, you know, how is that going. How many have undergone this treatment? 'Fess up.

Mr. Toews: Well, I know, Madam Speaker, that this individual is not interested in finding out, in fact, what types of programs are available for those types of individuals. I know that, first of all, there are johns who are ensured that they are brought into the system through our john school to ensure that they in fact learn about the dangers of what they are doing to a community by their activities, and indeed that there are measures under the particular orders that a court can order that can ensure that that type of assistance is in fact granted in appropriate cases.

Mr. Steve Ashton (Thompson): Madam Speaker, in recent months we have seen an incredible number of ads, both by the Conservative Party and by the government which actually should be paid for by the Conservative Party. If it was on a website, it would probably be listed under fraudulent.com, because there is one constant theme, and that is the fraudulent nature of the advertising.

I want to ask the Premier if he can explain–particularly with the health ads, $675,000 worth–how he can explain to people like my constituent who had a heart attack at Paint Lake in Thompson, had to be driven in to Thompson only to find out that the intensive care unit in Thompson was closed; once again, a chronic problem under this government, and in fact he had to be medivacked into Winnipeg. Where does that appear in the government advertising on health care in Manitoba?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Speaker, of course the member opposite asks these questions because he knows that people in Manitoba understand that we are spending more money on health care than has ever been spent by any government in the history of this province. We are spending $2.1 billion a year on health care, which is $800 million a year more than it was under the previous government that he represented, $800 million a year more on health care.

As a result of that, we now have dialysis that is available in a number of locations throughout the province that is being spread even further. We are able to get CAT scans in a variety of different locations throughout the province. We are able to get chemotherapy at various places in the province. In the past, you had to come to Winnipeg for any of those services. Under the NDP's vision of health care in Manitoba, people had to only come to Winnipeg for all those services. Today, they are spread throughout the province.

Today, we spend $140 million a year on home care compared to less than $40 million a year when they were in government. Today, we have an additional 900 personal care beds versus what there was when they were in office, and there are over 600 more under construction.

Madam Speaker, the investments we are making in health care are designed to meet the needs of the people of this province, and we are doing things that are superior to what is being done in most areas of Canada because we believe that it is important to meet the needs of the changing population, the aging population that we have, as well as address the needs of all Manitobans.

Madam Speaker, it is for those reasons that the member opposite attempts to always find criticism of the system rather than recognizing that the system is able to do more things for more people in more locations than ever before in its history.

Madam Speaker: Time for Oral Questions has expired.