Madam Speaker: Prior to Oral Questions, I would like to draw the attention of all honourable members to the public gallery where we have this afternoon fifty-four Grade 5 students from Linden Meadows School under the direction of Mrs. Gail Hurak and Mrs. Kathy McLennan. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable First Minister (Mr. Filmon).

Also, twenty-two Grade 9 students from Sanford Collegiate under the direction of Mr. Kelly Taylor. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable Minister of Government Services (Mr. Pitura).

On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you this afternoon.

* (1340)

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Madam Speaker, further to the minister's statement of rain and the devastation that that is creating and the despair that it is creating for Manitoba producers, we had a call from a reeve of Westbourne over the weekend talking about the number of municipalities that are unseeded. The R.M. of Rosedale is 85 percent unseeded as of Friday. We had a letter just recently from a person, Cam's Aerial Spraying, talking about the peaks and valleys in agriculture, but they have never seen a situation so serious and so grave as they do today.

We know that, as we speak, farmers, producers, reeves and municipal officials are meeting in Melita, and I would like to ask the Premier: has the provincial government notified the federal government in writing of their intent on the disaster funding assistance program?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Speaker, the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Enns) a week ago Friday spoke to Minister Vanclief and indicated our desire to utilize the AIDA program for the support for the farmers in difficulty. The minister's office has a call in again to Mr. Vanclief today. I have a letter drafted to the Prime Minister which will be going out this afternoon, and the minister will also be in discussion with his federal counterpart to try and get to the bottom of this.

We also understand that the federal minister is planning to be here this week, and so we will ensure that all efforts are made to have him understand completely the breadth and depth of the problems that are being faced by the farm producers, by the people of southwestern Manitoba. This is an issue that, as has been pointed out, is not just concentrated in the southwest corner, that is north of the Yellowhead and includes areas in the Minnedosa, Neepawa, Grandview, Gilbert Plains area and all the way to the Saskatchewan border.

It is an issue that is of extreme seriousness, and we take it as such. As I indicated last week, we have made a commitment that all of the various programs that were available in any of the disasters that have faced the farm community either here or elsewhere in Canada will be made available. As a result, we have also contacted PFRA or suggested that PFRA be looked at for possible programs such as the late seeding, the cost for chemicals, forgone costs for chemicals and other issues. They are all being looked at. All of the stops are being pulled out at this point to ensure that we address this as comprehensively as we possibly can.

Mr. Doer: I thank the Premier for his answer.

Madam Speaker, in the House of Commons on Friday, a statement was made by the federal Minister of Agriculture, Mr. Vanclief, that to date the Province of Manitoba has not asked to call on the disaster funding assistance agreement. It may or may not apply. This, of course, was reported back through the media to a number of producers who were quite frankly shocked when they heard that the minister did not say that the provincial minister had called him. There is a fair degree of uncertainty on the political side to go along with the horrible uncertainty of the weather and certainly of the difficulty that the weather has produced.

I would like to ask the Premier (Mr. Filmon): in light of the fact that on June 2 he said in this House that the matters would be clarified within 24 to 48 hours, would he ensure that that letter goes to the Prime Minister with copies to the federal minister immediately so that the farmers, producers and municipal officials can be reassured that the application is in and there is not finger pointing between jurisdictions but action between the jurisdictions to get to the bottom of this?

Hon. Harry Enns (Minister of Agriculture): Madam Speaker, I am surprised and I cannot account for that particular response by the federal minister in the House of Commons. It was a full week ago, not last Friday but the Friday before, that I had a lengthy telephone conversation with the federal minister, telling him that we are facing an emerging crisis that is getting regrettably worse with every rainfall. My immediate suggestion at that time was, as members in the Chamber know–we have a commitment, this government has a commitment of upwards to $60 million of support through the AIDA program, supported as well by the federal government of $90 million on a 60-40 sharing arrangement.

My discussion with him two Fridays ago was how we could best apply some of these significant funds to this problem. I am pursuing that this morning. My office called Mr. Vanclief's office, and as the First Minister indicated, we are in the process of setting up a schedule and an opportunity of having both myself, the federal minister, along with municipal leaders and farm leaders meet in the affected areas possibly later on this week.

* (1345)

Mr. Doer: I thank the minister for his answer. As I understand it, the two issues that are at the meeting today are, one, why has the provincial government not notified the federal government–in brackets, in writing? We have had the answer from the Premier (Mr. Filmon) on that issue. The second issue is: what is the contingency plan for unseeded land? Will the government be bringing to the federal government an actual contingency plan for the unseeded areas, Madam Speaker, so that, rather than getting into they have not talked to us, we have not talked to them, producers need some certainty here. We need a contingency plan. We should be proposing it to the federal government in very specific terms so producers will know what the contingency plan is.

Mr. Enns: Madam Speaker, within the next few days we will be doing just that. There are a number of issues at stake, but let us understand that this is a unique situation developing. All of us recall the floods of the Red River Valley, as late as two years ago, when 700,000 acres were under water. All but 1,800 acres of those acres were reseeded. So we are facing a different situation. That is why, as the First Minister mentioned, we are talking to the PFRA organization to talk about making sure in the first instance that all those programs that apply to unseeded acreages, loss of fertilizer, the offer of reseeding, which is not the case here because the farmers have not been able to seed in the first instance, but there was a $10 offer, a federally sponsored program that was applicable in '97 to the Red River Valley. We want to put those programs together, together with how we can rearrange the dollars allocated to the AIDA program to see what precise form the compensation program will take.

Let me take this opportunity, Madam Speaker. This government is extremely aware of the seriousness of this situation. This is going far beyond the immediate borders of the southwest. This is beginning to represent 12 percent, 15 percent of our total agriculture output in this province, and this government will be there for farmers' support. We will hopefully have details later on this week, particularly once we have had the opportunity of meeting directly with the federal authorities.

Mr. Oscar Lathlin (The Pas): Madam Speaker, my questions are directed to the Minister of Health. The Minister of Health recently has tried to justify the cancellation of surgeries over the summer months by saying that people just want to go to the lake, and at the same time, though, he is making claims that heart patients all have their surgeries within 12 weeks. My question is to ask the minister why Mr. Howard Porter of The Pas, whose heart condition is rapidly deteriorating, was told that his surgery would be put on hold because there is a quota on heart surgeries here in Winnipeg.

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, I will certainly look into this individual's situation, but in responding to the member for Kildonan (Mr. Chomiak), and providing some information on the current status of cardiac surgery in the province of Manitoba, if it is an urgent emergent situation I believe those are done in a day or two in the province of Manitoba. I am told the average waiting list is up to a maximum of about 12 weeks. We have shown significant growth in the numbers of cardiac surgeries we are doing in the province of Manitoba. That is because of the dedication of additional resources, additional support to do just that.

So I can certainly provide the member for The Pas with information in terms of the growth in numbers of open-heart surgery procedures being done in the province of Manitoba, significant improvement, better access, better support for Manitobans. But in terms of the individual that he brings to this House today, I am certainly prepared to look into that individual situation.

Mr. Lathlin: Madam Speaker, secondly, I want to ask the minister this question, because Mr. Porter and his wife were apparently told by the cardiac surgeon that the surgery quota is due in part to an acute shortage of qualified nurses at the Winnipeg hospitals, when he will put into action this nursing strategy that he talks about quite a bit these days so that critical patients like Mr. Porter will not have to wait for their surgery.

Mr. Stefanson: Madam Speaker, the strategy of attracting and bringing more nurses into our health care system is currently underway on a number of fronts. This 1999 budget that the members opposite supported includes some $32.5 million for 650 nursing positions. We have set up a $7-million fund to deal with the issue of retention and recruitment of nurses. Nurses who have left the system, want to come back into the system, want refresher courses, retraining, they can access that fund. We are also working with the educational institutions. The Faculty of Nursing at the University of Manitoba alone last year had an increase in enrollment of 23 percent, and I was told this year's graduating class of 40 graduates, in April of this year, 39 of those 40 are staying right here in the province of Manitoba.

In terms of the upcoming need of ICU nurses, there is a graduating class in I believe September, October. I think that again is in the range of about 40, and a significant number of those will end up at the Health Sciences Centre addressing the very important need in that area. So, Madam Speaker, on a number of fronts, we are doing exactly what the member for The Pas asks about, putting in place aggressive strategies to bring more nurses into our health care system here in the province of Manitoba.

* (1350)

Mr. Lathlin: Madam Speaker, finally, I wanted to ask the Health minister: given that Mr. Porter's physician in The Pas has told him that his surgery should be a priority and his health is being seriously compromised, what action is the minister prepared to take today to ensure that surgery scheduled this summer is adequately staffed so that people like Mr. Porter can get his triple by-pass operation?

Mr. Stefanson: Madam Speaker, as I have indicated in terms of the individual raised here today, I am certainly prepared to look into their situation. As I responded to the member for Kildonan to a previous question, there is nothing new in the province of Manitoba in terms of a summer slowdown. That has happened for many, many years in the province of Manitoba. In fact, the information I have been provided by the authorities is that we will continue to do more procedures this year than we have in many other years. If you look at the whole issue of cardiac surgery alone, at Health Sciences Centre alone it has gone up from 400 to 600 procedures in this year, significant growth, by dedicating more resources to provide the kinds of services that the member for The Pas is asking about.

So we have continued to dedicate resources to provide more support, to do more cardiac surgery, and in terms of the individual he raises, I will look into that matter, Madam Speaker.

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Madam Speaker, on September 11 of last year the nursing aide students from the College of Health and Family Support Studies, which is the We Care program offered at the Misericordia Hospital, were ordered to go to Portage la Prairie, Manitoba, to take part in a cleaning exercise after the students had already completed their cleaning portion of the nurses' aide program. They were unfortunately involved in a very serious car accident in transit on the way back.

My question to the Minister of Health (Mr. Stefanson) or the Minister of Education is: have you investigated this situation, and what supports have been offered in place to these students, many of whom are having trouble finding jobs as a result of this accident that occurred while taking this training program?

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Education and Training): Madam Speaker, I had heard about that unfortunate incident, and we will undertake to bring back a response to the honourable member upon reviewing whatever investigations have taken place.

Mr. Chomiak: Will the minister also investigate the fact that the students from the course, who were sent from the course here in Winnipeg, were sent to clean the house of the aunt and uncle of the director of the program? Will the minister also investigate that fact, that they were sent from Winnipeg to Portage la Prairie to clean the house of the aunt and uncle of this program and subsequently were involved in a very serious car accident?

Mr. McCrae: Yes, Madam Speaker, we will review that.

Mr. Chomiak: Will the minister also review the fact that the students were ordered to go to Portage la Prairie, were told they could not take their own vehicles, and the family members of the aunt and uncle were the ones who took the vehicles, and that was the vehicle that was involved in the accident? Will the minister also investigate that as well?

Mr. McCrae: Madam Speaker, yes.

* (1355)

Mr. Chomiak: Madam Speaker, on a new question. Would the minister, with respect to this accident, this situation that occurred, also investigate all of the students involved because many of the students were on social assistance or on EI and were sent to take part in this program so they could obtain employment, and as a result of this accident many are having difficulty finding and obtaining employment for something they were sent to by government and by government agencies to a supposedly sanctioned by the Ministry of Education and Training program? Will the minister investigate the situation of these students and provide support and assistance to these students?

Mr. McCrae: Yes, Madam Speaker, we have undertaken to investigate, find out the things that the honourable member is asking and ascertain the appropriateness of everything that takes place in programs like this.

Mr. Chomiak: Madam Speaker, will the minister also investigate the fact that, after the accident, I am advised the students were told not to contact the media and that the director of the program attended and visited some of the students in hospital and others and told them to sign a waiver form absolving the College of Health and Family Support Studies from any liability in this regard? Will the minister investigate that as well?

Mr. McCrae: Yes, Madam Speaker.

Mr. Chomiak: My final supplementary to the minister: will the ministry or the joint ministries undertake to investigate this particular college and its services offered to students who go in good faith trying to be re-educated and try to get their education and improve their lot in life and unfortunately encounter circumstances like this, and ensure that these students in this program, some of whom are in a very sorry state right now, will get assistance from the government for retraining or future employment as a result of the failure and the accident and injuries that have occurred to them as a result of this horrible situation?

Mr. McCrae: Madam Speaker, I am not in a position to accept any of the allegations the honourable member makes as fact, but I have undertaken to review this matter and to report back to the honourable member. We will take account of each and every question that he has raised today in addressing the matter.

Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Madam Speaker, last week, inside the Chamber, I tabled a document which clearly showed that the New Democratic Party made a cash donation in New Brunswick to help finance an NDP candidate. Unfortunately, we understand, we have been informed that it is not in fact an illegal act. Yet you will find that a vast majority, I believe, of Manitobans would recognize that this is definitely an abusive use of an important aspect of The Elections Act. My question to the Premier is: what is this government prepared to do in order to address this very serious violation of ethics?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Speaker, subsequent to the question being raised in the House last week, I wrote to the Chief Electoral Officer and asked for him to investigate the matter and report back to me. After we receive the report, if indeed what the member for Inkster says is correct, that it is not illegal, then discussions should take place to discuss whether or not such an activity should be deemed illegal and whether or not we should look at changing legislation to accommodate that. So I think we would have to wait to get a report from the Chief Electoral Officer and his recommendation on the matter.

* (1400)

Mr. Lamoureux: We are looking to the Premier to demonstrate some leadership on this critical issue and ask the Premier to recognize that the tax credit is for provincial politics in the province of Manitoba. Would the Premier of this province not agree to that and bring forward the legislation that is required to prevent provincial tax credit dollars going to help finance other candidates of the same political party outside of the province of Manitoba?

Mr. Filmon: Madam Speaker, I indicated last week that I question the morality of taking tax–

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Madam Speaker: Order, please.

Mr. Filmon: I know the New Democrats find it funny. Their judgment of morality is whether or not they do it. They believe that anything they do is morally right.

Madam Speaker: Order, please.

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Madam Speaker, the government is attempting to abuse the rules and not answer the question directly that was posed to them, which of course is contrary to our rules. Elections Manitoba in their submission has only proposed that one party broke the–well, actually two parties. The Liberals were convicted in the '95 election, and Elections Manitoba has said that the Tories broke the law in the election of 1995. We will stand by the findings of Elections Manitoba.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The honourable Leader of the official opposition did not have a point of order.

Madam Speaker: The honourable First Minister, to complete his response.

Mr. Filmon: Madam Speaker, of course, with respect to morality and–

Madam Speaker: Order, please.

Mr. Lamoureux: Madam Speaker, on a point of order, the member for Transcona (Mr. Reid) implied that the Liberal Party bribed an individual. That is a very serious allegation, and I believe that the member for Transcona should put forward the names–

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Madam Speaker: Order, please.

Mr. Lamoureux: Madam Speaker, after hearing some more of the heckle, I understand that they are referring to a specific case in which there was a conviction, so I will just leave it at that.

Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Inkster did not have a point of order.

Mr. Filmon: With respect to the statements from the very sensitive Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Doer), on pages 57 and 58 of the Monnin inquiry report, we see–

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Point of order, Madam Speaker. I believe Beauchesne would direct you to the fact that the member for Inkster asked a question of the Premier. The Premier is now using the opportunity to try to defend himself against the point of order of the Leader of the Opposition as well as deal with the Leader of the Opposition.

I know the Premier is very sensitive on this, but a specific question was asked by the member for Inkster, and the Premier ought to answer the member for Inkster. If the Premier wants to reflect or deal with other questions, he can, but I suggest that he should answer the question and not provoke debate because that is clearly in the rules. The question was specifically asked what the Premier would do, not how the Premier tried to defend himself against the serious allegations in the Monnin inquiry.

Madam Speaker: The honourable First Minister, on the same point of order.

Mr. Filmon: I find it not only ironic but somewhat hypocritical that the first time that somebody is suggesting that the Monnin commission report should not be able to be discussed in this House is the opposition. They are the ones who are sensitive because they have something to hide, and that is the embarrassment that the member for Crescentwood (Mr. Sale) has brought upon them. The Leader of the Opposition does not have the courage to be able to stand up to his member for Crescentwood and tell him that what he did was wrong: counselling people before the inquiry not to be able to appear before the inquiry and counselling them to break our laws.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. I recognize this is a very serious matter and a very sensitive matter, but I would ask all members in this Chamber to please comply with the rules of the House, not rise on invalid points of order that continue to provoke debate, and those responding to points of order to speak to only violations of our rules not the subject matter under discussion.

Madam Speaker: The honourable First Minister, to respond to the question raised by the honourable member for Inkster.

Mr. Filmon: As I began in my response to the member for Inkster, I indicated last week that, whether or not the matters contravene our Elections Act, it clearly is an issue of immorality in taking contributions that were made under a Manitoba tax exemption to a party in Manitoba and contributing them to a party in Nova Scotia. Clearly, there is a lack of morality in that kind of initiative, but the members from the New Democratic Party do not understand morality. They believe that anything they do is right and anything that anybody else of a different party does is wrong. I am afraid that the public will have to educate them on that matter.

Mr. Lamoureux: Madam Speaker, I would ask that we remain relatively focused on the issue at hand and ask the Premier to acknowledge the simple fact that taking provincial tax dollars that are meant for provincial campaigns here in the province of Manitoba and sending cash dollars to another province is morally wrong, and that this government has a responsibility to bring in the required legislation to rectify this loophole, and that we are asking for the Premier to bring forward the legislation. Stop talking about the Monnin report; we are talking about this particular case.

Mr. Filmon: Madam Speaker, the member for Inkster must have been talking to his seatmate because that is precisely what I said to him in the answer to his second question. In answer to the first question, I told him that the legislation would be considered after I receive a response from the Chief Electoral Officer. So, on both counts, I have already answered the question.

Mr. Tim Sale (Crescentwood): Madam Speaker, since the Manitoba Telephone System was privatized, more than a thousand jobs have been eliminated, less than 20 percent of the shares are held by Manitobans, phone rates are up 40 percent with another 30 percent planned. The pension-related tax break which was supposed to keep rates down has gone mostly to shareholder entitlement, and executive compensation has increased between five and tenfold, including the value of the stock options.

I want to ask the minister responsible for Manitoba Telecom still or the so-called golden share, whether he supported the increases in executive compensation that totalled between five and 10 times when you include the value of the stock options. Did he support that?

Hon. Harold Gilleshammer (Minister of Finance): Madam Speaker, the company that the member is asking questions about now is in the private sector. They are governed by a board. Those decisions are made by them, and that is appropriate.

* (1410)

Mr. Tim Sale (Crescentwood): Madam Speaker, the minister has four directors on the board. I am asking him what position he took.

Does the minister support, and did his directors support, the layoffs of more than 1,000 Manitobans, in spite of his Premier's promise that as a result of privatization no jobs would be lost?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Speaker, the member opposite knows that he misrepresents what I said. To every single question, I said that there would be no more layoffs under private ownership than there would be under public ownership, no more increases under private ownership than under public ownership. Those are always the responses that I said. They have to live in the real world. They have to operate in the real world. All he has to do is look at Saskatchewan where the layoffs continue in the publicly owned and where the increases in rates have been greater under public ownership than they have been under private ownership in Manitoba.

Mr. Tim Sale (Crescentwood): Madam Speaker, since the Premier is obviously interested in answering these questions, perhaps he would tell the House whether or not he believes it is an acceptable option for the Manitoba Telecom Services to contract out jobs that start at $12.58 an hour, to contract out those jobs to other provinces or to the United States of America in the current labour dispute. Is he in favour of that?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Speaker, what I am interested in doing is correcting the inaccuracies that the member for Crescentwood consistently puts on the record and that is what I rose to do in response to the last question.

What I believe is essential to the people of Manitoba is that they maintain the services of their telecom provider and that they do so in the best way to ensure public security, safety and all the other things. Only the member opposite wants to get involved in issues with respect to unions and not consider the best interests of the people who have a service that they depend upon.

Mr. Leonard Evans (Brandon East): I have a question for the Minister of Health. I have received a letter signed by 80 women in the Westman area who are mainly in their 40s and who believe the present Manitoba Breast Screening Program, which is limited to the ages of 50 to 69, is unfair. Although they could go to the Brandon general hospital for diagnostic mammography if they were referred by their doctor, they believe that the program offers many benefits not available from a hospital test or visit. So my question to the minister, Madam Speaker: would the minister review the situation in Brandon and modify the program to enable more women to be in the Manitoba Breast Screening Program from the Westman area?

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, the Manitoba Breast Screening Program, which we introduced in 1995 and of which we are very proud, now screening some 33,000 women each and every year in the province of Manitoba, is based on the best clinical evidence that we have been provided, and the program in Manitoba is actually similar to programs across Canada where it is available to women between the ages of 50 to 69 years of age. We continue to assess all of the criteria around the program, again based on the best medical and clinical information available, and we will do just that in terms of continuing to review the program. But I think it is important to recognize it is a very valuable program, it is providing screening to women in that age group. Women beyond those age groups, either below 50 or over 69, if they have any concerns, can certainly go to their doctor, and they can also have a screening done. In fact, outside of the screening program itself, as I have indicated in this House before, in terms of other screening and other diagnostic testing, there are another 30,000 women every year who have screening outside of this program. So actually, on an annual basis, there are over 60,000, about 63,000 Manitoba women receiving this kind of support.

Mr. Leonard Evans (Brandon East): Madam Speaker, is the minister aware or knowledgeable that the Brandon Breast Screening Program, the program in Brandon, is only using their machine three days a week, and it is possible that 50 more women could be screened each week? As a result, the waiting list now at the Brandon general hospital for diagnostic mammography could be reduced. So, therefore, would he not acknowledge that there would be more cost-efficiency as well as improved service?

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Health): No, I will not necessarily acknowledge any of the things the member for Brandon East has outlined. As I have indicated, this program was introduced in 1995 in the province of Manitoba. It is done on the basis of medical information provided to our government. As I have said, I think the program is fairly similar. I think other provinces that have a breast screening program have a similar age criterion, but we do continue to assess our program on an overall basis, recognizing it is a province-wide service being provided not only in Brandon but in Thompson, in Winnipeg, right throughout our province. We have two mobile breast screening units that travel around the province providing this service, and it is because of those kinds of services, Madam Speaker, that we are able to support some 33,000 Manitoba women.

Mr. L. Evans: I thank the minister for his answer.

Mr. Leonard Evans (Brandon East): I am going to table this letter signed by 80 women in the Westman area who are very concerned about the way the program is discriminating against them. So these are the views of 80 women from Souris, Deloraine, Brandon, et cetera–

Madam Speaker: Order, please. I am certain the honourable member has a supplementary question.

Mr. L. Evans: Does the minister understand that the Breast Screening Program offers women educational services and an excellent follow-up, that many women under 50 and over 69 believe that these benefits are being denied to them because of the existing age limits?

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Health): As I have indicated, we review the program on an ongoing basis. In fact, the age criterion is in accordance with the Canadian guidelines. In fact, for the benefit of the member for Brandon East, the national committee for the Canadian Breast Cancer Screening Initiative has a committee dedicated to identifying and addressing issues such as reviewing the benefits of organized screening for women outside the targeted age groups. Obviously, Manitoba Health is in contact with that organization, and as I have indicated, we continue to look at our program to be sure it is meeting the needs of Manitoba women, recognizing we draw on the best medical and clinical information we can.

Ms. Diane McGifford (Osborne): Madam Speaker, last week the Minister of Health confirmed that though the Breast Care Clinic at the Misericordia Hospital closes on June 15, the new St. Boniface version will not be open until some nebulous date, perhaps in the fall. He did not know the date. But he tells women not to worry, be happy, go to your own doctor. I would like to ask the minister today if he will now confirm that indeed the best a woman can hope for this summer is a badly fractured system with a little service here, a little service there. In fact, the concept of holistic service has been put on the shelf.

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, the member is absolutely wrong with all of her preamble and all of the information that she puts on the record. Manitoba women can still access the services through their own physicians. Those services will be provided through the clinics, and I can absolutely assure her that the consolidated unit at 400 Tache will be functioning no later than September 1 of this year.

Ms. McGifford: Madam Speaker, I would like to ask the minister, who knows that his plan to consolidate surgery really means eliminating the number of surgical sites, what a woman is to do if indeed her doctor does not practise at Grace, Victoria or St. Boniface. Is she supposed to delay, go to another physician, get on a long waiting list?

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The question has been put.

Mr. Stefanson: Madam Speaker, Manitoba women will receive the same access, the same levels of services that they have received up until this current point in time. We have expanded a number of initiatives to provide the kind of support that is in place, so again, the member opposite is absolutely wrong to generalize. She does not bring any specific example and tries to again, as we have seen before, strike fear in the hearts of Manitobans. I think that is totally inappropriate when it comes to any issue, let alone the health care issues of Manitoba women.

Ms. McGifford: Well, I think it is inappropriate for the minister to evade answering a question–

Madam Speaker: Order, please. Will the honourable member please pose her question now?

* (1420)

Ms. McGifford: Madam Speaker, I would like to ask the minister a very straightforward, simple question, and perhaps he could answer in these terms. Why did he close the Misericordia Breast Care Clinic before opening its replacement?

Mr. Stefanson: Madam Speaker, let us remember that basically none of these services were available in the province of Manitoba, nowhere near the extent they are today, under the previous administration. The Breast Screening Program alone was introduced by this government in 1995. The expansion of all of these services has been provided by this government in budget after budget after budget that members opposite voted against, time and time and time again. But I think what is most important is that the services will continue to be available for Manitoba women. The consolidated centre at Tache Avenue will be open no later than September 1 of this year and services will continue to be provided, with probably the most comprehensive breast cancer screening initiatives in all of Canada.

Ms. MaryAnn Mihychuk (St. James): Madam Speaker, in Thompson, Manitoba, Grades 7 and 8 students are reading geography textbooks so out of date that they are learning about the people in the land of the Soviet Union and the Communist bloc. They are learning that Canada has a population of 24 million people and that its Prime Minister is Pierre Trudeau. They are also learning that we have a serious concern about an energy crisis. Why are they so out of date? The textbook was published in 1982. Will the minister confirm to the House today that his government's deep cuts to our public school system have resulted in our kids using textbooks and classroom material that is two decades old?

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Education and Training): Madam Speaker, the honourable member, who is a former school trustee, knows very well of the myriad resources available to history teachers throughout Manitoba, including tens of millions of dollars worth of technological advancement that enables teachers to access all kinds of resource material, off the Internet for example, up-to-the-minute information about the historical development of this world in which we all live. I think school divisions could help answer the question the honourable member raises. I think she knows the answer very well.

She also knows that the amount that the province makes available for students from the textbook account has increased very, very significantly just in the last few years and that the question she has may well be put to the school division involved. But we need also to remember that, in order not to rush New Directions any more than is acceptable or something that teachers can deal with, the new history curriculum is on its way as well, which would call at that point for decisions to be made about textbooks.

Ms. MaryAnn Mihychuk (St. James): To the Minister of Education: now that he has admitted that Manitoba parents are going door to door raising funds to buy classroom materials like textbooks, can he tell the House–

Madam Speaker: Order, please.

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Education and Training): I have done no such thing as to admit what the honourable member has just said. I have said that if people are doing that, they ought not to be because there is sufficient funding available for textbooks. In many of our school divisions' accounts related to textbooks, they have surpluses. So in no way have I admitted to any such thing, and I would ask the honourable member to correct the record.

Madam Speaker: The honourable Minister of Education did not have a point of order. It is clearly a dispute over the facts.

Madam Speaker: Would the honourable member for St. James please pose her question.

Ms. Mihychuk: Well, now that he has admitted that parents are out–

Madam Speaker: Order, please. I am certain the honourable member has a supplementary question. Would she please pose her question now.

Ms. Mihychuk: Would the minister tell us how many parent councils are going out door to door raising money for textbooks in Manitoba?

Mr. McCrae: Madam Speaker, the honourable member has totally lost any shred of credibility that she has. I do not accept what she said in the preamble that was not supposed to be part of the question anyway, but she did say that we had made this admission. I have done no such thing. Parents ought not to be out fundraising for textbooks.

I am a parent, Madam Speaker. I believe in fundraising for things that are important for our kids; but for the essentials, that is supposed to be looked after by the funding formula and by the school divisions, and there is sufficient money there to do it.

So the honourable member has no credibility at all especially when she turns around and supports the budget that we brought forward recently that put 2.6 percent more into the budget for education than last year. Frankly, the honourable member simply has not got a clue on this point, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Time for Oral Questions has expired.