4th-36th Vol. 63B-Oral Questions

Madam Speaker: Prior to Oral Questions, I would like to draw the attention of all honourable members to the gallery where we have this afternoon fifteen Grade 5 students from Holland Elementary School under the direction of Mrs. Shelley Wallis. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable member for Gladstone (Mr. Rocan).

Also, seated in the public gallery, we have with us today the Honourable Robert Ssebunya, Minister of Health, Kingdom of Buganda, Kampala, Uganda.

On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you this afternoon.

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): In 1990, Mr. Mauro chaired a committee dealing with skills training and development here in Manitoba. He condemned the low enrollment in Manitoba community colleges. He said, and I quote: this is a tragic waste of human talent, and we have an increasing demand for skilled workers here in the province of Manitoba. He recommended that we proceed quickly to higher enrollment rates in our community colleges to meet the rising demands of skilled workers in our economy.

I would like to ask the minister responsible or the acting Acting Premier: why has the government not implemented the Mauro recommendations, and what has been the impact on young people and on the economy of Manitoba?

Hon. Linda McIntosh (Minister of Education and Training): The member is correct in that there is a growing demand for graduates from colleges. To that end, Madam Speaker, we have substantially increased our funding to colleges. The Council on Post-Secondary Education, in co-operation with college presidents and industry leaders, is working together with people from Industry, Trade and Tourism to help identify and speed up the process of producing certain high-demand trades that are growing very rapidly in our strong economy here in Manitoba.

We have, as well, a new apprenticeship model, which has been acclaimed widely throughout the province by all involved groups, that pledges to double the number of apprentices in Manitoba within the next three years. Many of those trades training, of course, take their class component in colleges, and those demands for skilled labour are again becoming ever increasingly prevalent as our economy becomes more and more strong in a very rapid way. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr. Doer: Madam Speaker, after Mauro reported, the government took a Tuxedo chainsaw to the community college program and eliminated and cut some tens of millions of dollars in community college support. In fact, the number of people enrolled in community college has, according to the latest Stats Canada report, declined from 5.9 percent of kids between the ages of 18 and 21 here in Manitoba to 5.6 percent.

Other provinces, like B.C., have gone up over 15 percent; Alberta is over 18 percent; Ontario is over 20 percent. Why have you failed to implement the Mauro, and why do you have so many young people that want to be trained and so many employers who need skilled workers? Why are you failing those people in terms of not implementing the Mauro recommendations?

Mrs. McIntosh: It is very theatrical to be dramatic and overstate your position, and that is done frequently on the other side. The fact is that a joint committee between Industry, Trade and Tourism and Education and Training has indeed been identifying and working with industry and people to ensure greater and greater enrollment in high-skill-demand occupations for training.

Madam Speaker, the member talks only about those up to age 21, knowing as he should full well that the majority of people entering apprenticeship training, for example, are in their mid to late 20s, just one statistic that he might want to add to his list to give an accurate assessment of how many people are interested in obtaining training for skills in the trades.

Madam Speaker, we are committed to doubling the apprenticeship training. We have substantially increased our funding to colleges, and I think if he talked more closely with some of the people involved in the colleges, he might see a different picture emerging than that which he cares to present today.

* (1340)

Mr. Doer: These are Stats Canada numbers on community colleges that show that some provinces in Canada are going ahead in terms of skilled training and some provinces are falling behind. Regrettably, this province is falling behind, and we hear it from young people who are waiting in lines every day. We hear it from employers who cannot get skilled trainers every day. What planet is this government and this minister on? They talk about drifting committees, Madam Speaker. What we need is some strong strategy to have a global economy that deals with a trained and well-skilled workforce, not the failure of the low-wage policy of members opposite.

I would like to ask the minister: in 1993, former Premier Duff Roblin reported to the people of Manitoba that we must double the participation rate in community colleges--the statistic that I quoted--within five years to keep up with the growing demand for skilled workers. It is now five years. Has the government doubled that rate, or has it again failed the people of this province for the future economy?

Mrs. McIntosh: You know, Madam Speaker, I find it very interesting that when our apprenticeship announcement was made last month, to overwhelming acceptance by all facets of the community, with an intent to double in the next three years, which is entirely possible under the plans that have been laid down, having input in the design of that strategy from all facets of labour and management in both sides of industry, high-trades training, I find it ironic that at the time the members of the opposition had nothing to say because it was such a good-news story.

The other thing I find interesting, Madam Speaker, is that not one question on this supposedly important topic to them was asked in the Estimates of expenditures by the opposition. We had a brand new apprenticeship model; we had an intense increase in funding to colleges; we have a demand for high-skills training, and not one question, when we had time to explore it, was asked in Estimates on this topic.

So I say, Madam Speaker, that I question why this is coming forward at this time, other than a desire to be on the record in a way that implies they have a concern and interest in this topic.

Ms. Jean Friesen (Wolseley): Madam Speaker, the bottom line for young Manitobans is that in this province, community college enrollment is going down. Elsewhere across the country, if I can get this across to the minister, it is going up. It is going down here; it is going up elsewhere. The Minister of Education and all her many predecessors have in fact left us with a system which cannot meet the needs of young Manitobans and cannot meet the needs of employers.

I would like the minister to explain today why, at Red River Community College alone, there are over 880 people on waiting lists.

Hon. Linda McIntosh (Minister of Education and Training): Not accepting any of the member's preamble as accurate and correct, I would indicate that if the member is talking about the current waiting lists at colleges, which I presume she is, as a person who says she knows a lot about education, she would know that at this time of the year the waiting lists are swollen because we have students applying for three and four different courses and programs, and they will take one of them and drop the other three once all the applications are in. So, at this time of the year, we expect to find swollen waiting lists. Then, as time goes on and people are accepted, those lists will change.

Those lists, of course, are traditional. There always is a swollen waiting list at this time of year. The Council on Post-Secondary Education and colleges use those lists as an indication of student interest. They compare them with the interest in admitting to the demand in the marketplace for those occupations.

Madam Speaker, this is not a new thing that she is talking about, but perhaps since she did not take the chance to ask questions in Estimates about this topic, she would not have a chance to know that.

Ms. Friesen: Madam Speaker, could the minister explain why Red River Community College alone has 99 students waiting for the computer training program, 45 waiting for cooks, 51 on a motor vehicle technician list, 47 pipefitters, 78 welding positions--each of those a high-demand occupation, according to the minister's own list. Why is that happening?

Mrs. McIntosh: Madam Speaker, obviously people are applying for those courses because they want to take them. That is the short answer to her question. The member may not realize--

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Madam Speaker: Order, please.

Mrs. McIntosh: Thank you, Madam Speaker. What the member is probably unaware of is that the Council on Post-Secondary Education has approved funding to enhance many of those existing college programs, including computer technology, including health care aide, including geographic information systems, including swine technicians and some of the new demands that are coming on stream. They have others under consideration as they review the expressions of interest by students and the market need that is shown compared to the numbers of students interested in taking part. As well, they check to see how many of those names are on three or four different lists, because we do know that students have traditionally and historically and still do apply for more than one program and then will drop off some once they have been accepted in one of the others.

So there are a lot of things that we use those stats for. I indicate, as well, that extra funding has been put into a lot of these programs in response to perceived and real need.

* (1345)

Ms. Jean Friesen (Wolseley): Madam Speaker, I would like to ask the minister to explain, because it is puzzling, why her government refused to accept Mauro's recommendation of a planning process to identify skills and education, why they ignored Roblin's five-year plan that was offered to them, and why, after two years of interim committees and transition committees and Council on Post-Secondary Education, the only plan that this government seems to have for the community colleges is a 68 percent rise in tuition fees to the year 2002.

Hon. Linda McIntosh (Minister of Education and Training): Madam Speaker, the members opposite are always wanting to say that there is no plan and there has been no action, and that is wrong. In terms of colleges and--

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Madam Speaker: Order, please.

Mrs. McIntosh: Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. Colleges moving to self-governance have, themselves, laid in place plans which have been shared with the Council on Post-Secondary Education. There is always a constant analysis of market needs at the college level, at the board level, which are now self-governing boards and--[interjection] Oh, really. This is unconscionable.

Working in partnership with the council, the council itself has been identifying, particularly with computer technology, where those high needs are. The money that we put into colleges has continually been increased. As well, not just with colleges, the council has also been in communication and partnering with universities on the need for things such as computer technology at a higher and more sophisticated level.

Madam Speaker, many of the member's assumptions are erroneous, and I do regret, and I must say again, that we had ample opportunity to go into intense detail on this in Estimates, and she did not ask one single question to indicate this now sudden brand new interest she has in colleges.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. Prior to recognizing the honourable member for St. Johns (Mr. Mackintosh), with the indulgence of the House, may I please introduce a school that has arrived.

I would like to take this opportunity to draw the attention of all honourable members to the public gallery where we have forty-four Grade 5 students from Dr. F.L.W. Hamilton School under the direction of Mrs. Atsumi Odaguchi. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable Minister of Highways and Transportation (Mr. Findlay).

On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you this afternoon.

Mr. Gord Mackintosh (St. Johns): Madam Speaker, to the Minister of Justice. First it was the victims, then the prosecutors, law professors, even defence lawyers, and now the Associate Chief Justice who have publicly expressed frustrations and warned about this government's--that self-proclaims it is tough on crime--lack of support for Prosecutions.

Would the minister, who said just last month that the government has consistently provided the Crowns with the resources that they require, tell us what it takes for a reality check for this minister?

Hon. Vic Toews (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): I can point to a very concrete example of the support that this government gave to prosecutors by increasing the number of prosecutors substantially as a result of the Lavoie inquiry, and that process is proceeding. Indeed, other supports have been provided to the prosecutors which are being put in place through the review. In respect of the correctional aspect, we are in the process of building a maximum security unit, and this government continues to be very, very supportive of the Urban Sports Camp Program, which we have just recently announced the opening of a new one in West Broadway.

Mr. Mackintosh: After that answer, would the minister tell Manitobans what is it: did he in fact know about the real state of this government's anticrime efforts but hope to rely on cover-ups, denials, the latest being his denial of what prosecutor Ed Sloane said: you are setting trial dates in January 1999, or does he just not know what is going on?

Mr. Toews: Well, Madam Speaker, that is a very interesting question. I have here a letter from his colleague the member for Burrows (Mr. Martindale), who addresses the Director of Public Safety, talking about our Crime Watch program, saying: it is my understanding that the rural Crime Watch programs have been very successful in rural Manitoba.

I would indicate that, again, that is one program where we have demonstrated, even to the satisfaction of the member for Burrows, that these programs are proceeding very, very well.

* (1350)

Mr. Mackintosh: We will sure sleep soundly tonight, Madam Speaker.

A question for the minister is, and it is on the minds of Manitobans: is the minister now hiring another lawyer at our expense to broker a deal, this time with Associate Chief Justice Jeffrey Oliphant, so he can speak on his behalf from now on?

Mr. Toews: As I indicated in my interview with one of the media, I know that it is not up to me to put words in the mouth of a judge--

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The honourable Minister of Justice, to complete his response.

Mr. Toews: What I am always concerned about is, if there is an expression of concern from the bench in respect of a particular issue, that my department responds to it in a timely fashion. I understand in this particular case the judge expressed some concern over an issue about an application not being signed by the Attorney General or the Deputy Attorney General, which is done in this province. I am advised in fact that the case law and the practice here has been that necessary consent is not signed until after the dangerous offender's application is in fact started, and that is consistent with the provisions of the Criminal Code.

Mr. Eric Robinson (Rupertsland): I rise on some very important questions for the Acting Premier. Half of the members from the Sayisi Dene First Nation at Tadoule Lake have had to leave their reserve because of the critical housing shortages that they are experiencing in that community. This winter, because of the mild weather that we have had, and we raised this last week I believe, 12 units were not able to get up to the Sayisi Dene community because of the condition of the roads. I would like to ask the Deputy Premier or the Acting Premier whether or not this government will work with the First Nation of the Sayisi Dene at Tadoule Lake and the federal government in addressing this very important issue.

Hon. David Newman (Minister responsible for Native Affairs): Madam Speaker, of course we will work with the Sayisi Dene in this situation in relation to the federal government. We have not been approached in this connection at this time, but I welcome intervention by myself and my department in any efforts to work in a partnership way with the Sayisi Dene in this connection.

Mr. Robinson: Madam Speaker, last week we raised the issue about the cost of living in northern Manitoba and the high cost of fuel, perhaps 100 percent greater than it is in the city of Winnipeg. I would like to ask the same minister that responded to my first question--in Tadoule Lake, because of the lack of a winter road this year, only fuel went to the community and no food went to this community this spring. We have elders, youth and citizens in this community, and it cannot be termed anything less than a crisis situation. I want to ask the same minister what assurances he can give to the First Nations with respect to deeming this a crisis situation in Tadoule Lake.

Mr. Newman: Madam Speaker, I welcome all the considerations, all the factors, all the circumstances to be brought to my attention at the earliest opportunity in my role co-ordinating matters on behalf of aboriginal people within our government. I will be very pleased to then ensure that the information is taken up with the appropriate departments and indeed other governments, the federal government in particular, and that appropriate and prompt effective response is encouraged to deal with what is obviously, in the mind of the honourable member for Rupertsland, a very serious and urgent matter. I can appreciate the significance of godlike intervention in access to communities in the wintertime and how this lifeline being disrupted can cause very severe consequences to any one of these remote communities.

* (1355)

Mr. Eric Robinson (Rupertsland): Madam Speaker, I want to give the minister that opportunity. Chief Gladys Powderhorn of the Sayisi Dene First Nation is in the gallery this afternoon. I would like to ask the minister if he will meet with her immediately after Question Period.

Hon. David Newman (Minister responsible for Native Affairs): Madam Speaker, I would welcome the honour and privilege of meeting with the representative from the Sayisi Dene, and I would certainly invite the honourable member for Rupertsland to accompany me on that visit. I would be available at three o'clock, after 2:30 maybe.

Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Madam Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Finance (Mr. Stefanson) or possibly the Minister of Housing, whoever chooses to answer the question. Manitobans acknowledge the responsibility of paying taxes is important. What they do ask is that government apply fair taxes. My question to the minister is: under the life-lease program, I was informed that in fact they are exempt from having to pay in some situations the school portion of the property tax. I am wondering if I can get confirmation on that fact.

Hon. Jack Reimer (Minister of Housing): I believe what the member is referring to is the eligibility under what they call the EIPH Act, Elderly and Infirm Persons' Housing Act, that allows them to be eligible for not paying school tax on that property.

In last year's legislation, if the member recalls, there was a change in the EIPH Act in which we restricted the sizes of units that were eligible for the eligibility to apply under that act, which gives them the ability to go for a school tax rebate. If the units that are built comply to those size regulations, they still would be eligible to apply for the licence. The licence itself is then brought forth to get the eligibility for the rebate on the school tax. If they are above the square-footage size, they are not eligible.

Mr. Lamoureux: I look to the Minister of Finance (Mr. Stefanson), and I ask the Minister of Finance if, in fact, he supports that seniors in one category, of the same financial capabilities, not having to pay a school portion of a tax while other seniors that live in residential homes have to pay a school tax. Does this Minister of Finance support that?

Mr. Reimer: I believe that there is a rebate available for seniors that are in their housing and in rental accommodations. I believe that there is that set up for the seniors right now.

To reiterate what the member is referring to in regard to the life-lease situations, if there were existing licences granted under the old act, they would be grandfathered and would stay in effect. It is not the intent to punish or to relinquish these acts--pardon me, the conditions that are under the existing act, under the previous ones. It applies to new construction under the life-lease philosophy, and their size restrictions are the ones that will dictate whether or not they would get a licence under the EIPH Act.

Mr. Lamoureux: Madam Speaker, a very simple question, and I ask for the Minister of Finance to answer the question. Do we have seniors in the province of Manitoba that are not having to pay property tax towards the school, and at the same time individual seniors of the same financial income that do have to pay it? Is that in fact the case?

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Finance): Madam Speaker, I think, as the member for Inkster knows, there are various programs that do affect people in different ways. Obviously, the life-lease initiative was a program to encourage and promote the development of housing for seniors. I believe that has worked reasonably well in our province. Some adjustments were made in the last session of the Legislature, as the Minister of Housing has already outlined, but that is part of the purpose behind the life-lease initiative.

So there are various initiatives that do affect people in different ways, sometimes depending on income situations, sometimes depending on the type of accommodation they choose and so on. That is nothing new to any governments, whether it is here in Manitoba or across Canada, the objective being to provide proper, affordable housing and accommodations for all Manitobans.

* (1400)

Madam Speaker: Order, please. I wonder if I might ask for the indulgence of the House, once again, to introduce an additional school.

I would like to draw the attention of all honourable members to the public gallery where we have ten Grades 9 and 10 students from Community Bible Fellowship Christian School under the direction of Miss Shelley Dalman. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable member for Swan River (Ms. Wowchuk).

On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you this afternoon.

Mr. Gerard Jennissen (Flin Flon): My questions are for the Minister of Northern and Native Affairs. The minister admitted earlier this week regarding the Sayisi Dene that the federal government is still refusing to allow any TLE land to be selected outside of Manitoba. Will he table today any correspondence on this issue that he has, along with his proposal for dealing with this issue?

Hon. David Newman (Minister responsible for Native Affairs): Madam Speaker, I do not know for a fact exactly what the position of the federal government is at this moment in relation to the availability of land outside our jurisdiction to satisfy TLE requests. I invite the honourable member for Flin Flon to share with me any information he might have in that respect. In the conversation that I had with the federal minister in relation to that, when we also shared in writing our position supportive of the Sayisi Dene, we were instructed through our respective officials that they were not prepared to look at extrajurisdictional territories to satisfy settlements within Manitoba. If that position has changed, it will be fresh and welcome news to me.

Mr. Jennissen: Madam Speaker, to the same minister: has the minister obtained any indication that the federal government is prepared to act on any of the recommendations of the Royal Commission on Aboriginal Peoples and negotiate with the Sayisi Dene and other First Nations people who suffered incalculable human and material damage when they were relocated against their will?

Mr. Newman: Madam Speaker, I have received no such assurances and indeed no official or informal response as to what position the federal government is going to take in relation to the Sayisi Dene.

Mr. Doug Martindale (Burrows): Madam Speaker, in February 1997 there were 156 children, on average, every night in short-term emergency placements, although short term is stretching it. Some were there for up to a year. Today the CEO of Winnipeg Child and Family Services says there are 160 to 190 children in short-term emergency placements. I believe this is a serious indication that this government has done nothing in the past year to address this problem in spite of it being brought to their attention on numerous occasions.

I would like to ask the Minister of Family Services: what is she going to do to implement the recommendation of the operational review from over a year ago that said that increased financial inducements are required to maintain foster parents? Will this minister act on these recommendations and reduce the unacceptably high number of children in emergency placements?

Hon. Bonnie Mitchelson (Minister of Family Services): Madam Speaker, I thank my honourable friend for that question. I know that I certainly do not understand all of the issues surrounding every child that is taken into care, and I am sure that my honourable friend does not understand all the issues either and some of the reasons for some of the placements that are short term and long term. But I want to indicate that it was our government that commissioned the operational review because we knew that things needed to be looked at very carefully and we needed to look at how we could better deliver child welfare in the city of Winnipeg. So it is something that both the agency and my department participated in, and we have not been standing still.

I know that we have been working aggressively with the agency around hotel placements. Very often, if children are abandoned and picked up on the street in the middle of the night, they are going to need some emergency placement until we can sort things out. It is not unrealistic to think that that kind of support is going to be needed for children. I will continue in my next answer to inform members of the opposition on some of the things we have done.

Mr. Martindale: Madam Speaker, I would like to ask the Minister of Family Services what she is doing to reduce the number of children in shelters, which have grown from 32 to 81 per night. Will she do something in a proactive way, other than announcing another pilot project, to help foster parents, to keep children out of emergency placements? What is she going to do about this serious problem of children, most of whom are under 11 years old, in emergency placements?

Mrs. Mitchelson: Madam Speaker, I think it is important for all Manitobans to understand that the reasons children are apprehended are because they have been left alone, abandoned, neglected or abused. The key for us is to try to ensure that kind of thing does not happen, that parents have the tools that are required to parent in a way that is not going to lead to the need for children to be apprehended. That is exactly why we are putting all of the money into early intervention. We do not want children to become someone's case in the Child and Family Services system. We want to prevent them from ever getting into the Child and Family Services system.

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Madam Speaker, for a number of years we have known that there has been a serious shortage of physicians in northern Manitoba and rural Manitoba. The provincial government, the associate deputy minister has said publicly that there are enough physicians in the city of Winnipeg in fact. I want the minister to confirm whether or not the minister agrees with his own report prepared by the Centre for Health Policy and Evaluation, a report prepared for the Physician Resource Committee, of which the minister's department is a part, that in fact Winnipeg has a surplus of 102 to 124 general practitioners.

Is the government planning on that kind of basis with respect to that report?

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, with respect to that report or any others, they obviously are snapshots in time, and there have been a host of factors that affect physician supply in any one particular part of the province. The infusion of doctors this winter into rural Manitoba and northern Manitoba after our recruitment drive obviously stabilized that situation. Changes in physician remuneration around the country in a very competitive marketplace have changed the situation somewhat in Winnipeg. So these are not static situations. They do change from time to time, and we have to respond accordingly.

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Madam Speaker, after several years of false starts, is the minister prepared to outline for all Manitobans and for this Legislature what the government plan is with respect to physician, not just recruitment, but something very, very crucial that has not been looked at, physician retention in the province of Manitoba?

Will he release the unreleased secret physician resource plan? Will he outline what the plan is specifically for the government? Because people not only have trouble getting doctors in northern and rural Manitoba but now they are having trouble getting doctors in Winnipeg.

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, one of the elements in the retention issue, particularly of family physicians, which we flagged over the course of the winter in our discussions with the Manitoba Medical Association is in the decisions that they took with respect to allocation within the fee schedule. This advantaged many of our family practitioners and was in fact one of the reasons why we have had an exodus in this particular area as physicians leave for more lucrative places to practice medicine.

We have attempted to address that, and we trust that it will be addressed as a priority within the arbitration process that we have now entered into with the Manitoba Medical Association. As I have indicated, I think what is key to dealing with physician resource issues is developing a system with the regional health authorities that will be far more responsive in our recruitment efforts to fill gaps and to develop the kinds of immediate needs, whether it be remuneration or other supports, to assist in retaining physicians when we have them here.

* (1410)

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Madam Speaker, can the minister explain to this House why the minister has yet to reply to our plan of six months ago in order to train foreign-trained but Canadian physicians to occupy positions, why the minister has not replied, why there has been absolutely no movement on this front? Can the minister explain why this year I am advised that there were no positions available for Canadian foreign-trained doctors in terms of the residency programs?

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, I want to make sure my answer is accurate to the House. I have some advice that that may not be an accurate reflection of the residency positions, but I will undertake to track that down to provide that to the member for Kildonan.

Mr. Steve Ashton (Thompson): Yesterday, in addition to attending the CRTC hearings with my colleague the member for Rupertsland (Mr. Robinson), where the absence of the government minister was very noticeable, we also had the opportunity to talk to housing co-ordinators from all over northern Manitoba, from First Nations communities.

Madam Speaker, to say there is a crisis in housing in First Nations communities is an understatement. What I would like to ask the Acting First Minister, or I guess the acting Acting First Minister, is what action the provincial government will be taking to work with the MKO and other aboriginal organizations to get the federal government to recognize that we are facing a crisis situation where it would take a minimum of $450 million to deal with the backlog of 4,550 homes on the waiting list in First Nations communities. What action will this provincial government take to speak on behalf of First Nations?

Hon. David Newman (Minister of Native Affairs): Madam Speaker, we have indicated that we are prepared to partner with the First Nations leaders in relation to the federal government and indeed to work within the provincial government on this issue.

I might say, in a meeting at which Grand Chief Bushie, Grand Chief Flett and others, including Chief Ron Evans, were present, before we left Quebec we made that offer and in fact offered to take that to the federal meeting and sought them to prepare a briefing of the representatives that would be going with our delegation. They opted not to and opted also not to have us bring that to the table. But when they are ready, we are going to be there with them.

We agree that housing is the most significant priority issue in relation to First Nations people in this province at this time, and we want to work with them in resolving that issue as quickly and effectively as possible.

Mr. Steve Ashton (Thompson): As a follow-up question, Madam Speaker, I would like to ask what the provincial government will be doing with the very difficult circumstances facing Northern Affairs communities, which are directly under the jurisdiction of this government. I would like to ask the Minister of Housing what programs the Minister of Housing is going to both enhance and implement in Northern Affairs communities to ensure that they can also deal with the desperate need for adequate housing, this, in the year 1998, when many people are living in Third World conditions in northern Manitoba.

Hon. Jack Reimer (Minister of Housing): I think we on this side share the same concerns that the member for Thompson has in the fact that housing and the priority of housing in the North is something that we have tried to address through the federal government through the Minister of Northern Affairs. I have had the opportunity to meet with some of the ministers on various occasions on the national level, and this is a topic that has come up for discussion. I have also had the opportunity to meet with the Minister of Housing federally, Mr. Gagliano.

It is a topic that we bring up constantly because of the problem, and the biggest problem is that the federal government has pulled itself out of the housing participation market in all of Canada. It is something that we have lobbied the federal government to get back into, in a sense of recognizing their responsibility to be part of the housing problems and to be in partnership with this. At this time, the federal government has said that they are in fact withdrawing or trying to withdraw completely out of the housing and the public housing market, but it is something that we have talked on, on a national basis.

Madam Speaker: Time for Oral Questions has expired.