Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Madam Speaker, my question is to the First Minister (Mr. Filmon). The Minister of Health has been stating for the last number of months that he expects there will be a solution to the situation with doctors in rural Manitoba in some 30 or 40 communities dealing with emergency services. Yesterday he obviously stated to the media that he felt a cure was in place for the end of the month, and he stated that this model was developed in conjunction with the MMA.

I would like to ask the Premier: Is there in fact an agreement between the MMA and the government dealing with the doctors in the 30 or 40 communities in Manitoba?

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, as I briefed the Leader of the Opposition's critic, the member for Kildonan (Mr. Chomiak), the other day, we went into the process of over 90 days with the various stakeholders, including the regional health authorities, the MMA, the College of Physicians and Surgeons and others. We have attempted to develop a new model. We, of course, would like the concurrence and support of those various stakeholders in that model. I can tell the member today that I think we are at the stage of a few final touches on the details that are being completed, and we have staff who have been working with the Manitoba Medical Association to ensure their co-operation and endorsement. As we speak now, discussions, I think in the final stages, are currently underway.

Mr. Doer: Madam Speaker, then the answer to the question is: There is no agreement at this point, you are still working on an agreement at this point, you feel you are close to an agreement at this point, but you do not have an agreement at this point.

I would like to ask the First Minister, in light of the fact that the 270 physicians affect some 30 or 40 communities, does the government have a contingency plan. Can he inform the people of Manitoba that will be vitally concerned or have already been concerned about disruptions and lack of service from the disagreement with the rural and northern doctors with the government, is there a contingency plan in place? Can the people of these communities be assured that they will get medical services from doctors when they need it?

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Mr. Praznik: Madam Speaker, first of all, let me say that the member, who has had great experience in negotiations, should appreciate that at this particular stage of the game I am very limited, somewhat limited in what I can say. What I can say to him today is the kinds of discussions that we are having are not about substantive matters; they are about the form of an endorsement and the form of the material that will go out to the regional health authorities who will have the responsibility of putting in practice arrangements with the physicians in their areas.

So I can assure him that his discomfort over whether or not there is an agreement is probably not warranted. I must be, as he appreciates, a little bit cautious, because we are completing these arrangements. But I think his assessment of not having support for the principles of the model, I would tell him we are not into a collective agreement situation here. We are in a model that we will authorize the regional health authorities. They will have that authority before the end of this month to negotiate and set up their arrangements with their individual physicians and what we wanted, of course, was the endorsement of the Manitoba Medical Association, and we are currently working on the form of how that will come.

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Madam Speaker, after Question Period on Wednesday when the minister approached me and advised me about his negotiations with respect to this matter, he indicated that he thought an agreement would be in place, would be acceptable by all parties, including the MMA, the 270-so-odd doctors, the community and the like. I have been given to understand that, at this point, the MMA is recommending rejection of the particular agreement, and I wonder if the minister might outline for me exactly what the status is as of right now.

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): I am not sure where the member is getting his information, and I do not know what would have changed since our last communications last evening, but throughout the course of this day--and I have seen the exchange of correspondence between the MMA--and please appreciate, we are not looking here for an agreement with the Manitoba Medical Association. We are looking for their support of the model. I have seen the exchange of documents. We have had discussions. I think on the principles of it, from my understanding, I would be surprised if one were to say there was not support. The fact of the matter is how that is communicated to the regional health authorities. The documents that go out from our office are very critical, so there is no misunderstanding between the MMA or practitioners, because the MMA obviously has to work with their physicians, and we want to make sure that the documentation that goes out on the model is acceptable and agreeable to all concerned. We are in the process of fine tuning that kind of documentation.

Mr. Chomiak: Should this all collapse, and we are facing an emergency walkout or strike or some other form of service delay or problem in the next few days, will the minister assure the House that he will live up to the promise made by his Deputy Minister of Health on March 30 that the province will pay the block funding to ensure that doctors can keep working at the previous rates in order to try to resolve this matter should it arrive at a walkout or strike situation and ensure that we can continue negotiations and solve this matter? Will he live up to the assurances of the deputy minister?

Mr. Praznik: Madam Speaker, I am not quite sure what the member is getting at in his specifics with reference to block funding, because there are only a very few instances in the provinces where there is in fact a block funding arrangement. Currently, most of the emergency services provided in rural and northern Manitoba are handled on a fee-for-service basis. Quite frankly, if that option is still there, in fact is part of the model for smaller facilities, that is paid by the Ministry of Health.

What I will have and what I hope to be able to put out more formally later in the day is a new model. We have had some discussion about that which will be provided to the RHAs as a tool in which to provide emergency services. I am not so naive as to expect that any model we do develop is going to be a hundred percent accepted by everyone, but I would think that it is so reasonable that it will solve the issues for the vast majority of physicians in the province and working with their RHAs because it is complicated, with a fair amount of detail. Within a very short period of time, they will be able to work out their arrangements to provide emergency services across the province.

Mr. Chomiak: Madam Speaker, again, if the deal should fail, or fail to be ratified, or not approved, and we are facing a serious situation next week, will the minister give assurances to this House that the province is prepared to put forward a position and funding to ensure the doctors can stay working until some other subsequent agreement can be worked out?

Mr. Praznik: Madam Speaker, I am not sure what the member is asking for--a block fund to keep doctors working. Doctors are free to keep working now. The current status quo arrangement in most facilities is a fee-for-service model. There are some facilities, Brandon being one, where there are some additional arrangements and support being made. To suggest that we are going to take some block fund of money with some unknown quantity or amount aside and say, please keep working if we throw money at you, is only a New Democratic Party solution. It is not one that I think is realistic.

We have spent a great deal of time working at a very reasonable model. I think when the member sees the numbers attached to it--and the member for Kildonan knows those numbers--I think the public of Manitoba and most of the physicians will think it is very fair and reasonable, and we hope to be able to give that authority to the RHAs very, very shortly.

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Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (Swan River): Madam Speaker, this government has been all over the map on compensation for flood victims. First, they kept the maximum at $30,000 which we forced them to raise to $100,000. Then we have the Premier (Mr. Filmon) contradicting the Minister of Government Services as to whether the deductible should be waived or not. Now we learn that, on Wednesday, cabinet made a decision to waive the deductible for homeowners who are having their homes condemned.

My question to the Minister of Government Services is: Why has this minister continued to refuse to provide us with that information in the House, and why did he not tell flood victims yesterday that only those people who had their homes totally lost would be having their deductible waived?

Hon. Frank Pitura (Minister of Government Services): Madam Speaker, in response to the member's question, one of the things that we go through with regard to a disaster of this magnitude, of course, is it is a moving type of target and things are changing constantly as you go along. But one of the things that we did have, our claims inspectors, when they first started taking a look at some of the homes, did some flagging on homes that had the potential of having what they thought might be structural faults. So, at that point in time, we had to make a decision as to how to get these homes inspected. So we made some contacts with the Central Mortgage and Housing inspectors to come in, who were structural engineers who had the expertise, and at the same time allowed us under the disaster assistance policy to have the necessary auditing process so that it would be eligible for coverage.

Yesterday afternoon, late afternoon, I was informed that there were now 40 structures that were write-offs and that the Land Management Services of our department was moving forward for appraisal. So, at that point in time then, the decision that was made by cabinet was a decision that we could go ahead with and announce to people that we could waiver the claim on those homes that were uninhabitable.

Ms. Wowchuk: But you did not make the announcement last night.

Will the minister admit that the reason he did not make the announcement last night was because he knew that many people who have not had total loss are in worse condition than those who have had total loss of their home, and this government does not care about the 2,000 families who are in a very desperate situation right now? This is just a heartless government that is thinking more about bottom line than about the lives of people and about children who have no homes to live in right now.

Mr. Pitura: Madam Speaker, when this disaster occurred, it occurred in and around my home community which affected many of my friends, some of my relatives and many of my friends in the Morris area and throughout the entire Morris constituency. So it was a major trauma to be able to face that kind of a disaster. As Minister of Government Services, the main objective of our department is to ensure that the people who have been affected by the disaster had the help, had the assistance, and were able to develop a reconstructive process. So we have done numerous things to be able to speed up that process so that people can re-enter their homes.

The 1979 flood took in excess of 10 months for all the awards to be made. The 1993 flood took almost 12 months for all the awards to be made. The 1997 flood, we are going to do that in two months, so that people will get their awards and be able to start the reconstruction process. The victims of the flood in this are very important to this government, and we want to ensure that as much is done as possible to get them back into their homes.

Mr. Eric Robinson (Rupertsland): Madam Speaker, today, Manitoba First Nations have declared this day to be First Nations Housing Day to show nonaboriginals how First Nations people are being forced to live in and--

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Madam Speaker: Excuse me. Order, please. I am experiencing difficulty hearing the honourable member for Rupertsland, who has been recognized to pose a question.

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Mr. Robinson: Thank you, Madam Speaker, if I can begin again. This is a very important issue. Manitoba First Nations people have declared today as being First Nations Housing Day to show nonaboriginal people how First Nations people are being forced to live in their communities. In fact, the MKO has challenged the new Indian Affairs minister, Jane Stewart, to come for a few days to one of the reserves in Manitoba and see first-hand the conditions that people live under.

I would like to table that proclamation of this event signed by all the chiefs of this province. Given the seriousness of this issue, the housing crisis faced by First Nations people in this province, I would like to ask the Premier at this time what action this government is prepared to take to address this very serious issue.

Hon. David Newman (Minister responsible for Native Affairs): Madam Speaker, this is a very important issue to this government, and it is a very important issue to the aboriginal people. I think it is very important and very useful to have this day declared as it is, to focus national attention on the issue.

The approach of this government to dealing with special needs issues like housing, even when it is a federal government responsibility, as it is in the case suggested by my honourable friend, this government will work in collaborative ways in good faith with the federal government on dealing with the special needs of the aboriginal people. In some cases, and in too many cases, the federal government has situations where there are Status Indian people who are not on reserves who are not receiving support from the federal government with respect to their housing, and that is why we have an urban aboriginal strategy. That is why we are focusing on housing as a part of the development of that strategy.

By working together, federally, provincially and with the city governments and municipal governments and the Indian populations in all regions of the province, we are going to beat this problem.

Mr. Eric Robinson (Rupertsland): Madam Speaker, I would like to again bring to the attention of this government the seriousness that exists in the First Nations communities of this province, illnesses like tuberculosis, all attributed to the overcrowded housing conditions that Indian people have to live with.

My question to the Premier is simply this: I know that at a given point in the near future the First Ministers of this country will again meet with the Government of Canada. I would like to ask the Premier whether he can commit his government in making the shortage and condition of houses on reserves a priority in any upcoming discussions with the federal government and also the other provincial governments in this country.

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Speaker, it has been the practice of the Premiers at their annual conference to include issues to do with First Nations in Canada as part of their agenda. On a number of occasions, the agenda has also called for special meetings, such as last year there was a follow-up to discussions on some of the First Nations issues with a full day in Calgary, and I was one of a few of our Premiers who were able to attend that meeting. They certainly were not, by any stretch, all there, but they all had representatives.

We spent a whole day with representatives of all of the major aboriginal organizations in Canada in following up on the many, many issues that are of concern to our aboriginal people. We certainly have on numerous occasions--and I have personally raised the issue of the disproportionate impact of many of the major requirements for support of our aboriginal brothers and sisters on Manitoba, because of the fact that they represent almost 10 percent of our population, by far the highest of any province in Canada. Saskatchewan is almost as high, and beyond that I do not think any other province is above 4 percent.

So it has been an issue that I have raised in the past. It is an issue that I know will be discussed again at our annual Premiers' conference as part of the agenda items. I certainly will very strongly put forward the concerns that our aboriginal people have with respect to the lack of support that they get on certain issues, notably adequate housing and clean water supply.

Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Madam Speaker, my question is for either the Minister of Education (Mrs. McIntosh) or the Minister of Finance. With the end of June, once again comes the end of yet another school year, and time in and time out we always have been posing questions to the government with respect to that continuing reliance of the financing of education on property tax.

My question to either minister is--give a straightforward answer: Does this government have any intentions, either now or in the future, of stopping the reliance of having to finance more and more public education through our property taxes?

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Finance): The member for Inkster has raised this issue on many previous occasions. Certainly, as a provincial government, we look at the issues of taxation on an ongoing basis. We look at the impact of our decisions on other levels of government, but there have been some changes in this area in some other jurisdictions. I ask the member for Inkster, if he is proposing that education funding be reduced from the property tax, where is he suggesting that be made up? I would certainly welcome any input that he might have, any suggestions that he might have relative to that issue, because some of the provinces and some of the jurisdictions that have tried to address that issue have found that there really has just been a shift, and there has been a shift of some responsibilities to municipal levels of government, some responsibilities that should not necessarily end up at municipal levels of government. So, again, I challenge him and encourage him to provide his suggestions and his vision of how you would deal with that issue.

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Mr. Lamoureux: I would ask the Minister of Finance: If he is sincere with what he just finished saying, will he then agree that between now and the beginning of the new session he will in fact convene a meeting where we will have input from different school boards? I would be more than happy to share my opinions at such a meeting with the Minister of Finance in a sense of co-operation, but will he give that commitment that he will in fact, over the summer, meet with some people to try to resolve this issue once and for all?

Mr. Stefanson: I am bewildered why the member for Inkster feels he needs a meeting with other organizations or individuals represented to provide any information that he might have on this issue, whether he is proposing to increase the provincial sales tax, whether he is proposing to shift responsibilities to all of our municipal levels of government, whether he is proposing to increase the personal income tax. What is he proposing? You need a certain amount of money to provide the services in education for the provincial government, for the municipal government, and clearly that money has to come from somewhere. So, again, I encourage him, if he has specific research, if he has specific suggestions, he should be providing those in advance, and we would certainly be prepared to look at those, Madam Speaker.

Mr. Lamoureux: Ultimately what we are looking for is a more equitable way of doing it--financing education.

My question to the Minister of Finance: The one-time Minister of Education--and I would ask the Minister of Finance to reflect on the one Minister of Education, while he was in opposition, Mr. Manness, when he was a part of the cabinet, talked about financing up to 80 percent through general revenues. Has this government ruled out any sort of ongoing increases in general revenue?

Mr. Stefanson: It is easy for the member to stand up and say he is looking for a more equitable solution, but again he does not provide any suggestion what his definition of a more equitable solution is. Is it to increase the provincial sales tax in Manitoba? Is it to increase other taxes. Is it to shift health care responsibilities to municipalities? What is his so-called equitable solution? Today the amount of money generated from the property tax system is required to provide a quality education here in Manitoba. That is the single most important aspect and focus of spending our dollars, is to provide a quality education for all of the young people here in Manitoba. So, again, I challenge him, and I welcome any specific suggestions that he might have in this area.

There is no easy solution, because a certain amount of money is required by all levels of government to provide the services that are expected and are needed here in Manitoba. So, again, if he has research, if he has specific recommendations rather than generalities, I welcome them, and I challenge him to provide them to us.

Mr. Gerard Jennissen (Flin Flon): Madam Speaker, my questions are for the Premier.

At the MKO conference in Norway House yesterday, delegates endorsed the fight of the Northlands Dene Nation and the Sayisi Dene Nation in their fight for Denesuline claims north of 60.

I want to ask the Premier where he stands on the Dene land claim issue, and is this government prepared to take this issue to the next federal-provincial meeting?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Speaker, I will confess very openly that I have not had a briefing on the land claim issue, and so I could not comment on it at this time.

Mr. Gerard Jennissen (Flin Flon): My second question to the Premier is: Since the Repap operations have now reached 25 miles south of Pukatawagan, is the Premier and this government prepared to support the construction of an all-weather road to Pukatawagan in order to reduce living costs and also to reduce the costs of medivac and air charters of patients needing treatment in Flin Flon or The Pas?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Speaker, I will take that question as notice.

Mr. Stan Struthers (Dauphin): My question is for the minister in charge of tourism. The decision that the Department of Natural Resources made to contract out the reservation of parks and camping fees in this province is an absolute disaster. Madam Speaker, there are so many complaints being logged with the Department of Natural Resources that people now are being forced to go outside of our province in order to camp.

Is the minister of tourism aware that a person in Swan River had so much hassle, so much trouble trying to book a spot in the Swan River Valley at a park that the person ended up booking a campsite within five minutes in a park in Saskatchewan?

Hon. James Downey (Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism): Madam Speaker, let me, first of all, say that I know the Minister of Natural Resources (Mr. Cummings) has been working very aggressively to make sure that all bookings for the parks in Manitoba are carried out very efficiently and effectively at its lowest cost possible, and that is being done as it relates to that particular issue.

I also want to remind the member for Dauphin, I believe that he is from--is probably going to have one of the record numbers of people participate in one of the biggest tourism festivals out there. It just keeps growing and growing. If he would only look in his backyard to see the evidence of how positive tourism is in the province, he may have a little different attitude towards it.

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Mr. Struthers: I would invite the minister of tourism to phone to Dauphin to book his site at--

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member for Dauphin was recognized for a supplementary question.

Mr. Struthers: Can the minister of tourism confirm that, amongst the many complaints that have been logged already by somebody who is designated within the Natural Resources department to take these complaints, can he confirm that these complaints include having to book more than once for campsites, which means you pay the reservation fee more often? Can he confirm that people on the other end of the phone in California cannot even spell the province of Manitoba? Can he confirm that these sites that are being reserved in California, that the people on the other end of the phone do not even know that Manitoba is not a state, that it is a province in the country of Canada? It is not the 52nd state, as some of these people on the other end of the phone tend to think.

Mr. Downey: No, Madam Speaker, I cannot confirm that, but what I can confirm is when the NDP were in government, they went to the campsites with sledge hammers and broke the barbecues; broke the campsites down. Tore them up; literally destroyed them. That was the policy of the NDP government.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member for Thompson, on a point of order.

Mr. Steve Ashton (Opposition House Leader): Beauchesne Citation 417 is very clear that: "Answers to questions should be as brief as possible, deal with the matter raised and should not provoke debate."

Madam Speaker, I realize that the Tories would rather be back in the 1980s when they were opposition. They should not worry; pretty soon they will be back in opposition and can raise those kinds of concerns.

Madam Speaker: The honourable government House leader, on the same point of order.

Hon. James McCrae (Government House Leader): On the same point of order, probably a point of order well taken by all members of this House, not only with respect to the way we answer our questions but also the way we ask them. We were doing very well up until just a couple of moments ago, so maybe it is the chemistry between the minister and the honourable member for Dauphin (Mr. Struthers) that went a little strange here today, but I am sure that can be rectified very quickly if all honourable members just maintain some decorum for the next few minutes.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. On the point of order raised by the honourable member for Thompson, indeed he did have a point of order. The honourable Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism replied to his question, but at the end, regrettably, he was starting to debate.

An Honourable Member: I am sorry.

Madam Speaker: I am sorry. I am not certain why the honourable Minister of Natural Resources was on his feet. If he was on, I recognized him because he was on his feet to ascertain why he was on his feet.

Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister of Natural Resources): Madam Speaker, I was to assist completing the answer on the earlier question.

Mr. Ashton: We know that the Deputy Premier needs help, but it is not in order. We do not have tag-team answers in the Legislature in Question Period.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. On the point raised by the honourable member for Thompson, once I had ascertained why the honourable minister was on his feet, I did not recognize the honourable minister to reply to or add to the response to the question.

Mr. Steve Ashton (Thompson): On a question. Opposition is--[interjection] By the way, I do not need any help to ask the question, but the Premier may need some help answering this one because it is on MTS.

Madam Speaker, opposition is growing in Manitoba to the applied $3-a-month rate increase that the privatized MTS is seeking, and we do not even know yet what additional increases will be on top of that. The Manitoba Society of Seniors has stated: We are certainly going to oppose that increase. They are currently meeting with their lawyer to look at intervening at the CRTC.

I want to ask the Premier: Will he follow the lead of provinces such as Quebec, Ontario and British Columbia and intervene at the CRTC hearings on behalf of Manitoba seniors and other Manitobans and say no to the $3 increase?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Yes, Madam Speaker, I intend to look into the matter with my colleagues from across Canada and will certainly report back in the not too distant future.

Mr. Steve Ashton (Thompson): I am not sure. The answer sounded good, but I do not think it was a response to my question. I want to clarify with the Premier: Is he going to intervene at the CRTC hearings in September, like three other provinces do on a regular basis? Will he join with the many Manitobans who are saying no to the $3 increase being brought in by the newly privatized MTS?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Speaker, I want to say that, as I have in the past, the rate increases that are being applied for are exactly as they would be whether the company were in public or private ownership. The basis for intervention has to be one of logic and reason, and I want to look into the rationale that other provinces are using.

Mr. Daryl Reid (Transcona): Madam Speaker, for some time we have been asking questions about the government's lack of action in prosecuting the owners of Canadian Corrosion Control. There is a long history of Workplace Safety and Health violations by this company and by its owners.

Considering the long history of the Workplace Safety and Health violations--seven in three years for Canadian Corrosion Control, can the Minister of Justice explain why it was not in the public interest to prosecute the owners of this company to prevent them from harming someone else's father, brother or son?

Hon. Vic Toews (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Madam Speaker, I do not know whether it was or was not in the public interest. What I can indicate is that when prosecutors--and it is not the government. It is not for the government to interfere in a prosecution, as I know the member for Transcona would want us to interfere, but there are two factors that prosecutors look at, and the first factor is, is there a reasonable likelihood of conviction? Secondly, and this comes from the NDP report in Saskatchewan, the other thing that a prosecutor must look at before a charge is laid is whether it is in the public interest to lay that charge. Those are two requirements that prosecutors must look at. That is the determination that the Prosecutions office makes, and that is the basis upon which they proceed.

I know that it is a very difficult job for prosecutors, it is a difficult job for inspectors, but I know each and every one of these public servants has the public interest at heart in any of the decisions they make.

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Mr. Reid: Madam Speaker, the minister did not answer the question. He just repeated the question back to me.

I want to ask the Minister of Justice to explain how it is fair and just for the owners of Canadian Corrosion Control to pay more in fines for littering and yet escape prosecution when one of their workers is killed on the job due to negligence. How is it fair to the families and to the other workers of our province that the company pays more in fines for littering than for the time when they kill one of their workers?

Mr. Toews: Madam Speaker, one of the things that the NDP prided themselves in when they brought in The Workplace Safety and Health Act--it is an act that I support, and I think it is a very good act--but the entire philosophy of that act when it was brought in by the chief architect Victor Rabinovitch and the NDP government was that the emphasis be education. When one looks at--

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The honourable Minister of Justice, to complete his response.

Mr. Toews: And I know when one looks at the statistics, when one looks at the deaths that occurred during the NDP years and when one compares the success in a relative term when looking at the years in which we have taken that act and in fact brought that issue to a fore so that workers are protected in a more real and substantive way, we can see that it was this government that cares about workers and ensuring that they are safe. I know the member for Minnedosa, the Minister of Labour (Mr. Gilleshammer), has brought in information in respect of prosecutions and that is something, as well, that is important.

Ms. Marianne Cerilli (Radisson): Madam Speaker, we have been asking questions about this government's plans to sell Manitoba Housing Authority properties. In the last year reported, they sold 89 properties, and we keep hearing about other properties they plan to sell, but they will not give us a complete list. These include single-family homes which may be turned into rooming houses.

I want to ask the Minister of Housing, in honour of aboriginal housing day--and if they are going to insist on continuing to sell single-family units in particular, will the minister commit to consulting with organizations like STOP, Solutions to Overcome Poverty, a group of Indian and Metis women who want to provide seven homes for seven moms and to ensure that these Manitoba Housing Authority properties will continue to provide housing for low-income Manitobans.

Hon. Jack Reimer (Minister of Housing): Yes.

Ms. Cerilli: Well, can the minister explain to the House if he has had any other strategies to involve aboriginal groups, particularly in off-reserve aboriginal groups, for aboriginal people coming to Winnipeg? Since there are no new construction programs, there are no longer any renovation housing programs, are there any strategies to involve these groups to fill the vacancies in Manitoba Housing Authority's properties?

Mr. Reimer: The member is pointing to a situation in the housing where there is from time to time surplus properties that are declared surplus and the units are then disposed of. If there is a better utilization through working with community groups for the takeover of these homes and the responsibility of the maintenance of these homes within the community and the objectives of Manitoba Housing can be achieved, we are willing to work with any type of group that has this type of fortitude and this direction of self-involvement with our housing stock, so we are willing to work with these groups on a continual basis for the improvement of housing in Manitoba.

Mr. Eric Robinson (Rupertsland): Madam Speaker, I have one question for the Minister of Environment. As the minister knows, the Pine Falls Paper Company, following upon the plans of its predecessor, Abitibi-Price, is attempting to build a road up the east side of Lake Winnipeg. I would like to ask the minister to tell the House what the department has recommended to him concerning the proposal to build a road to Bloodvein.

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Environment): Madam Speaker, the discussion I have had with the department respecting this matter has been about any developments like that being done with full consultation and full respect for the environmental requirements that are in place, so that due process is something that we want to see followed in any of these types of developments.

Mr. Jim Maloway (Elmwood): Madam Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Government Services. Outside the Chamber the minister today admitted that the total cost of the computer contract could be as much as $50 million. I want to ask the minister what his position is on companies donating funds to the Progressive Conservative Party while they are negotiating contracts with his department and other government departments.

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Finance): If the member is referring to the questions earlier about desktop management, I am not sure where he is getting his numbers from. The current cost of providing desktop management services is about $12 million. We are in the process of hopefully concluding a contract with Systemhouse that has not happened yet, so those are the figures.

In terms of donations from private sector companies, the reality is it happens on an ongoing basis to all of our political parties, and for anybody to even suggest that would in any way influence the awarding of any contract is absolutely, totally ridiculous. The fact that kind of question is coming from members opposite proves that they are the only kind of people likely to do that kind of thing.

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Madam Speaker: Order, please.

Madam Speaker: Quickly, please. The honourable member for Elmwood, with a very short question.

Mr. Jim Maloway (Elmwood): My supplementary to the Minister of Government Services is this. I would like to ask the minister whether he can tell the House that the large number of donations to his party from companies doing business with the government is any cause for concern about potential kickbacks or tollgating.

Hon. Frank Pitura (Minister of Government Services): Madam Speaker, when government does business they go through very strict guidelines in regard to making requests for proposals to be placed for contracts. That is a process that has been in place for years within the government, and so each project as it comes up goes through a regular regulated process that has no direct connection at all with anything else, but in terms of the objective of the project and the cost of the project and who can do the project the best.

Madam Speaker: The time for Oral Questions has expired.