The Acting Chairperson (Mr. Gerry McAlpine): Order, please. Will the Committee of Supply please come to order. This section of the Committee of Supply will be considering the Estimates of the Canada-Manitoba Enabling Vote. Does the honourable Minister of Finance have any opening comments?
Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Finance): No, I do not, Mr. Chairman.
The Acting Chairperson (Mr. McAlpine): I thank the honourable minister. Does the critic for the official opposition, the honourable member for Brandon East, have an opening statement?
Mr. Leonard Evans (Brandon East): Not necessary, Mr. Chairman. I often wonder why we ask for opening statements on these specific items as compared to a whole department. A whole department I can see a need for an opening statement, and it is fine to be asked that, but I do not think it is called for in these specific programs, but I have no real problem.
The Acting Chairperson (Mr. McAlpine): I thank the honourable member for that. The honourable member for Brandon East, do you have questions to pose to the committee?
Mr. Leonard Evans: Yes, just a few questions.
The Acting Chairperson (Mr. McAlpine): Just before you do that, I would ask the minister's staff to please come forward.
Mr. Leonard Evans: I appreciate that many of these items are specific departments that are under the responsibility of other ministers, but, nevertheless, perhaps the Minister of Finance can give us briefly some information on what is involved in some of the items as listed in the Estimates on the Canada-Manitoba Enabling Vote. There is an amount of $760,000 for the Winnipeg Development Agreement. I wonder if the minister could briefly explain what that money is to be used for.
* (1430)
Mr. Stefanson: I would like to introduce Debra Woodgate, the associate secretary of Treasury Board, who has joined me.
As the member for Brandon East knows, the Canada-Manitoba Enabling Vote is where we set aside dollars usually related to agreements we have with the federal government, and it is usually a percentage of what we are expecting to spend in programs that we share with the federal government. As a rule of thumb, it has often been about 20 percent, but it does not necessarily have to be 20 percent. It can be different percentages or an entire amount.
So when we look at the Winnipeg Development Agreement, the Department of Urban Affairs will have budgeted $3.04 million, and we have also budgeted the $760,000 here in the Enabling Vote for a total program of $3.8 million for the Winnipeg Development Agreement. As the member knows, it is an agreement between the City of Winnipeg, the federal government and ourselves, a $75-million agreement over approximately five years. So this $3.8 million in '97-98 represents $2 million for operating and $1.8 million for capital.
I think the member for Brandon East may have seen some of the various documents on the Winnipeg Development Agreement, the various components of it, but to give him a sense of some of the kinds of programs that we expect some of this money to be spent on in 1997-98, there are various departmental expenditures relating to the operating, and they are initiatives like the Urban Safety program, the Riverbank Development, North Main economic development program, and so on, are some examples.
There are also various capital programs, again related to neighbourhood infrastructure, riverbank development. There are some programs related to transportation, also some programs related to housing assistance for high risk groups, so those are some of the kinds of initiatives that are supported through the Winnipeg Development Agreement, but I can certainly undertake to forward him any brochures or information on the agreement if he so wishes.
Mr. Leonard Evans: I thank the minister for that information, that overview. He did mention riverbank development. Just a quick question. Obviously, everyone is quite concerned about riverbanks these days, given the flood situation we have been experiencing the last many weeks. Again, the minister may not know this, but let me ask him a related question. He may not know just how the flood situation is going to impact on how these monies are going to be spent for riverbank development, but related to this is my concern about federal assistance for flood control measures, and is there any discussion now of riverbank funding, per se, from the federal government in addition to these, given the fact that we are very conscious of serious consequences, detrimental consequences of flooding?
Mr. Stefanson: Mr. Chairman, to a large extent the Winnipeg Development Agreement is application-driven in terms of projects in dealing with riverbank development, riverbank enhancement, and so on, so this program really will be separate from any issues related to flood support. As the member for Brandon East I believe knows, about a week ago the provincial government signed an agreement with the federal government, a memorandum of understanding, and one of the elements of it included the whole issue of negotiating an agreement to deal with various preventative measures.
That is in the process of being negotiated with the federal government, striking an agreement to deal with the kinds of things I think he is referring to, what kind of preventative measures, what kind of initiatives should we be putting in place as it relates to our rivers in Winnipeg and outside of Winnipeg, and certainly the federal government should be a significant funder of those measures. So that was one component. I think the MOU had about nine components, if I recall. That was one, and hopefully negotiations can be concluded successfully very shortly on a separate agreement as it relates to that entire area.
Mr. Leonard Evans: I thank the minister for that information. I would imagine if this memorandum of understanding comes to pass in terms of actual agreements, it would be probably totally separate from the Winnipeg Development Agreement insofar as it has some impact on the city of Winnipeg and rivers.
Okay, that is fine. Perhaps we could just go down the list and then pass the whole resolution at one point instead of--
The Acting Chairperson (Mr. McAlpine): Item 26.1.(a) Portage la Prairie Waste Water Infrastructure - Capital, no dollars.
Mr. Leonard Evans: No, I am suggesting we do not do that. Let us just go down the list and then we can pass the whole resolution. It is quicker this way.
Mr. Leonard Evans: Mr. Chairman, just on a point of order, I am just suggesting, to expedite matters, we will allow members of the committee to ask questions as we go down the list, and then we can just pass the whole resolution at the end.
The Acting Chairperson (Mr. McAlpine): Just for the understanding of the committee, you are going to ask questions generally on the whole aspect and then pass the resolution at the completion.
Mr. Leonard Evans: We are going to ask questions on specific components of the Enabling Vote, but I am suggesting, instead of calling them each time, it may be quicker just to have the resolution passed after we have finished our discussion.
The Acting Chairperson (Mr. McAlpine): Agreed? [agreed]
Mr. Leonard Evans: Could the minister just briefly outline the Agricultural Sustainability operating monies? What are these going to be spent for, just very briefly?
Mr. Stefanson: Mr. Chairman, similar to the previous item, this area also includes an allocation both under Agriculture and Natural Resources. Those two departments on a combined basis have about $1.651 million allocated for this area, along with the $389,000 under the Enabling Vote for total expenditures of $2.04 million. The objectives are to facilitate the adoption of effective resource management and environmentally sustainable practices to enhance long-term sustainability and competitiveness of the agri-food sector. They also are to facilitate the conservation and enhancement of the natural resources that agriculture uses and shares by minimizing the impact of the agri-food sector on the environment.
But, I guess, more appropriately, looking at Activity Identification, it enables farmers and farm organizations, local delivery groups, commodity groups and research organizations to undertake a series of activities involving technology transfer, various incentives, applied research, economic analysis and communications. Some of the examples of the program areas under this agreement are soil resource management, water resource management, integrated resource management, forage cover crop utilization and livestock management. So those are some examples. Manitoba Agriculture staff serve in a technical and support capacity to assist those participating in the delivery of these programs.
So it is an initiative that has been around for a few years now and certainly is worthy of ongoing support.
Mr. Leonard Evans: Mr. Chairman, that sounds very interesting, and it sounds a very useful type of spending. Just briefly, though, what percentage of that is from the federal government in this agreement?
Mr. Stefanson: Mr. Chairman, these amounts that I have provided are all provincial dollars. The federal government does provide resources as well, and it is administered by a joint management committee. I could certainly undertake to provide the member with any information I can on the federal commitment for 1997-98 and their contribution.
Mr. Leonard Evans: If he could just give us an estimate of the federal contribution in this item, and, also, I would take him up on all those brochures or materials on the Winnipeg Development Agreement that he offered a few minutes ago. There is no big hurry.
Mr. Stefanson: Mr. Chairman, I will do both. I will provide information on the Winnipeg Development, and I will provide a specific figure as it relates to the federal contribution for '97-98 on the Agricultural Sustainability.
* (1440)
Mr. Leonard Evans: Just passing on to Municipal Water Infrastructure, I have an overview question, and then my colleague the member for Dauphin (Mr. Struthers) has some specifics. Again, could the minister explain what the agreement is, very briefly? How many municipalities are involved under this $825,000, and what percentage is federal money?
Mr. Stefanson: Again, the total allocation for this area in 1997-98 is $4.125 million; $3.3 million is provided under Rural Development; and the $825,000 is provided under the Enabling Vote. This really is the agreement, the Canada-Manitoba Partnership Agreement on Municipal Water Infrastructure called PAMWI, which I think we are all familiar with. It originally was a $90-million agreement: $30 million from the federal government, $30 million from the provincial and $30 million from the municipalities.
The federal government made a decision back a few years ago, whether it was their '93 or '94 budget, to reduce their support by $3.1 million. So they reduced it from the 30 down to approximately $27 million. Because it is a third, a third, a third, we made the similar adjustments to our share, so our commitment to this total area today is about $27.6 million, of which almost all of it will have been spent by the end of 1997-98 because this agreement has been running for several years now.
There have been some 23 eligible communities affected by the program. To give you an example of some of the communities that have received support, there is Altona, Brandon, Dauphin, Morden, Portage la Prairie, Selkirk, Steinbach, Teulon, Winkler, Arborg, Beausejour, Carberry, Gladstone, Grunthal, Killarney, Neepawa, Notre Dame de Lourdes, Roblin, St. Claude, Virden. That is certainly the vast majority of communities that have been affected by the agreement.
Mr. Leonard Evans: Again I thank the minister for that information. I just make one comment, and that is people talk about industrial development and bringing industry to various towns and so on and often do not realize that water plays a critical role in attracting or being able to have that industry in those communities. It often is not understood by and large, so I am pleased to see the money is being spent well on this particular program. My colleague the member for Dauphin has some specific questions on that area I believe.
Mr. Stan Struthers (Dauphin): I am particularly interested in the monies that have gone and been earmarked for the community of Dauphin. We have had quite a couple of years with battling our giardia problem and boiling water. The town has been under a boil-water order from Public Health, and we have been making many submissions for money to get a water treatment facility built in our community. I am wondering if the minister can update me on what the provincial government has corresponded with local town officials in regard to funding for a water treatment facility in Dauphin.
Mr. Stefanson: When I listed the communities affected by this particular area, the PAMWI agreement, I did refer to Dauphin, and I see the total commitment over the agreement to Dauphin under the PAMWI agreement was $450,000.
I know the project that the member for Dauphin is referring to is of a much larger cost than $450,000. Our government did make a commitment in support, I believe last year, to deal with some of the immediate issues in Dauphin, but I know there is a request for a sum of money for a significant improvement to their water treatment facilities. That issue is really with the Minister of Rural Development (Mr. Derkach). That is who Dauphin is communicating with, and I really should leave it to him to give a status report as to where things are at.
I know at one point in time Dauphin was interested in whether or not there would be money available under this top-up to the infrastructure program, but, unfortunately, with the limited amount of dollars that have been provided for the top-up agreement, as we discussed yesterday, there are significantly more projects requested and dollars requested than there are dollars available.
So that does not appear to be a very likely avenue for Dauphin to look at. I know the federal government has given some indication of potentially some support out of the Western Grain Transportation assistance fund, but, beyond that, I know Dauphin has communicated with the Minister of Rural Development. It really is his area of responsibility, and I should leave any further discussions to him at this time.
Mr. Struthers: I thank the minister for the information, and it is something I will then take up with the Minister of Rural Development.
Has the provincial cabinet discussed at all matching the money that the federal government then has put forward? We have been led to believe that the federal government has approached Treasury Board federally to provide $3 million for their part of a water treatment facility.
Has any discussion taken place with this government as to possibly matching that, that the federal government has come up with?
Mr. Stefanson: Mr. Chairman, we are really getting off the specific issue before us, but the issue of the funding announced by the federal government under the WGTA fund, unfortunately, those allocations were done by the federal government without any discussion or consultation with the provincial government in terms of priorities, in terms of matching dollars or whatever. So our position to date has been to deal with them on a project-by-project basis and to do the analysis that is required and determine on a project-by-project basis whether or not it is a project that the provincial government should be supporting and whether or not we have the current financial capability of supporting the project.
So I certainly am extremely critical of the process that the federal government followed in terms of coming to their decisions and making the announcement the way they did, but having said that, we will look at all of the projects. We are well aware of the situation in Dauphin. We did provide some money last year to deal with the immediate problem. We recognized it and we, along with the municipality, made a commitment to deal with that immediate problem. We know there is a longer-term both problem and solution that is before us which does require a significant sum of money, as the member indicates.
What appears to be the federal commitment is in the range of $3 million, so that gives us a sense of the magnitude of the project, but the Minister of Rural Development (Mr. Derkach) is assessing that project and is in communication with the community of Dauphin and I am sure would gladly keep the member informed.
Mr. Leonard Evans: Passing on to the next item, Framework Agreement on Treaty Land Entitlements - Operating, I notice there was no money last year, but now we are asking for $450,000.
So is this a new expenditure item? I do not have previous years to compare with, so is this a new framework agreement item? I know there have been agreements for some time.
Mr. Stefanson: Mr. Chairman, I guess put quite simply these really are the costs associated with the treaty land entitlement. As the member knows, there have been a series of claims that have been validated, a commitment from our government to transfer land under the treaty land entitlement. The federal government is providing some cash.
So what has been provided for in this budget year are the various costs that we will incur to fulfill our side of the agreement in terms of transferring the land and the different costs that have to be incurred to do the land transfer and so on.
So it is not direct cash support under the treaty land entitlement. It is more the costs related to our areas of responsibility in terms of transferring land, and it could be a combination, I am sure, of survey costs, legal costs, all of those kinds of things.
Mr. Leonard Evans: Mr. Chairman, this is the last item on the Promotion of Official Languages. I note there is a significant increase in Operating money this year from $200,000 last year to $1.2 million this year. Also, I would like to ask about the Capital. What is that money, this over half a million dollars of Capital monies being used for?
* (1450)
Mr. Stefanson: Mr. Chairman, dealing with them separately, the Capital allocation of $525,000 is part of an agreement with the federal government for the Francophone archival centre which was entered into back in 1995-96. It basically covers approximately three years. It is a $3-million total contribution split equally between Canada and Manitoba in terms of the enhancements and improvements to that centre.
In terms of the Operating, the increase in the Operating really reflects more or less the actual costs that were incurred in 1996-97, and I should point out those are fully recoverable from the federal government. They are 100 percent recoverable on the Operating. They can be French language initiatives that are done directly within government, or they can be initiatives that are done with agencies outside of government, but they are flowed through the provincial government. The agreement with the federal government is, I guess for all intents and purposes, that we are a form of clearing house.
Mr. Leonard Evans: So you will be spending the 1.2 although it is all federal money.
Mr. Stefanson: That is absolutely correct. We will be spending the 1.2. It is all federal money. It could be for direct government departments. It could be for agencies or it could be for Crown corporations, and it is really done in consultation with the federal government.
Mr. Leonard Evans: Just one last question, where is this archival centre being located, St. Boniface or St. Jean Baptiste? Where is it?
Mr. Stefanson: Mr. Chairman, to the best of my knowledge, it is in St. Boniface, and I will certainly undertake to get specifics for the member.
Mr. Leonard Evans: Fine, thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think we are prepared to pass Resolution 26.1.
The Acting Chairperson (Mr. McAlpine): For the sake of the committee, I am going to read off each line and have it passed individually. 26.1.(a) Portage la Prairie Waste Water Infrastructure - Capital, no dollars--pass.
Mr. Leonard Evans: I do not want to waste time on points of order, but we have done this before where you can pass the whole resolution. I am sure it is not necessary to read every item. I am just trying to save you some work, Mr. Chairman.
The Acting Chairperson (Mr. McAlpine): I appreciate the honourable member's consideration, but this is the discretion of the Chair that in the interests of passing, no question is left unanswered with regard to the lines. We are going to pass each line by line.
The Acting Chairperson (Mr. McAlpine): Item 26.1.(b) Winnipeg Development Agreement (1) Operating $400,000--pass; (2) Capital $360,000--pass.
26.1.(c) Agreement on Agricultural Sustainability - Operating $389,000--pass.
26.1.(d) Partnership Agreement on Municipal Water Infrastructure - Capital $825,000--pass.
26.1.(e) Framework Agreement on Treaty Land Entitlements - Operating $450,000--pass.
26.1.(f) General Agreement on the Promotion of Official Languages (1) Operating $1,200,000--pass; (2) Capital $525,700--pass.
Resolution 26.1: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $4,149,700 for Enabling Appropriations, Canada-Manitoba Enabling Vote, for the fiscal year ending the 31st day of March, 1998.
This now concludes the Estimates portion of Enabling Appropriations. We will now move to Industry, Trade and Tourism.