Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): My question is to the First Minister. The Premier on December 20, 1995, signed an Order-in-Council authorizing the loan guarantee and expenditure of some $26 million to the SmartHealth agreement that the government had entered into.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, we would like to ask the government: How much money has been expended by SmartHealth, and how much money has been loaned and guaranteed by the Province of Manitoba under the Order-in-Council signed by the Premier?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): I will take that question as notice and bring the detailed information back to the Leader of the Opposition.

Mr. Doer: Mr. Deputy Speaker, we understand that one of the committees dealing with the confidential information is meeting to look at draft privacy legislation sometime this week. It seems to us that legislation dealing with privacy and confidentiality should be in place before any money is either loaned or expended by the taxpayers of this province to the Royal Bank subsidiary.

I would like to ask the Premier: Has any money been expended by the province? Has any money been loan guaranteed by the province, and does it not make absolute sense for us to have legislation in place first for dealing with the privacy of citizens rather than having money flow first and deal with the privacy of legislation second?

Mr. Filmon: Mr. Deputy Speaker, I will take that question as notice and bring back the detailed information to the Leader of the Opposition.

Mr. Doer: The Premier has been critical of almost everybody about their concerns on confidential information, concerns about this system of dealing with the SmartHealth operation.

In light of the fact that this Order-in-Council was signed some 16 months ago by the Premier and the Minister of Finance (Mr. Stefanson) authorizing the expenditure of some $26 million in loan guarantees and expenditures to SmartHealth, I would like to ask the Premier: Will he ensure that no money flows in either loan guarantees or in expenditures until there is adequate time for this Legislature, this body of people, to pass legislation that will meet the test of Manitobans, that will meet the test of the Supreme Court decision dealing with confidential medical records that has been passed by the Supreme Court of Canada? Does it not make complete and total sense to deal with the privacy issues first, rather than have the money and loan guarantees flow before the privacy of our citizens?

Mr. Filmon: Mr. Deputy Speaker, I will respond to that in conjunction with the information that I undertook to take as notice just moments ago.

Mr. Deputy Speaker: Avant que nous poursuivions, je tiens à signaler la présence dans la galerie publique de 11 visiteurs de Toulouse, France, sous la direction de Monsieur Gerald McLeod. Ce groupe visite la circonscription de la députée de Fort Garry. Bienvenue au Manitoba.

[Translation]

Before we continue, I would like to indicate the presence in the public gallery of 11 visitors from Toulouse, France, under the direction of Mr. Gerald McLeod. This group is visiting the constituency of the member for Fort Garry. Welcome to Manitoba.

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Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Mr. Deputy Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Health.

In 1989 the province stepped in to operate the Rideau Park Personal Care Home directly. We have researched the authority of the Minister of Health, and if the Minister of Health were to review the regulations in the Manitoba Gazette under The Personal Care Home Act, the minister would note that the minister has extensive authority to obtain information from personal care homes on demand as well as financial information, and the minister can withhold funding and force those institutions to provide that information.

The real tragedy of Holiday Haven is that we raised the issue in October and nothing--

An Honourable Member: Is there a question?

Mr. Chomiak: Yes, there is a question, to the deputy minister. Perhaps the deputy minister will do something about it because they did not.

The real issue here, Mr. Deputy Speaker, is why the province did not do anything from October until a death occurred in February. Will the minister now institute an investigation of his own department's handling of this issue so we can be assured that this can never happen again in Manitoba?

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): As the member well knows, once this particular matter was brought to my attention we took steps to change the management. Mr. Deputy Speaker, it was done under the information provided me by the department that I did not have specific power to change management there. We requested that the operators of the facility relinquish their management, which they did. I can assure the member that in that particular facility we have a new management team. They are working towards ensuring that that facility can be accredited.

Mr. Chomiak: Can the minister explain how the department has failed to act on numerous, dozens and dozens of complaints at Holiday Haven, other personal care homes, their own study and report from three years ago with 39 recommendations for improvements to personal care homes, how the department, the ministers of Health, the previous and the present, have failed to act on their own recommendations to prevent the kind of tragedy that occurred at Holiday Haven?

Mr. Praznik: Mr. Deputy Speaker, in response to this particular incident that occurred early in my tenure as Minister of Health, I have undertaken a review internally of the workings within the ministry to see how we handle these issues and, as the member has pointed out, there is certainly a need for a number of things to take place, including audit and inspection. If there is one fault here, I think it is the people in the department, the staff in the department who have worked with personal care homes, have tried to resolve issues at the level of management in trying to resolve issues in personal care homes, working with the management of those facilities.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, I hope within a very short period of time to announce some changes that we will be taking that will ensure I think a better role in ensuring the protection of people in the personal care homes of our province.

Mr. Chomiak: Mr. Deputy Speaker, how can the people of Manitoba have any more confidence in the pronouncements of the minister today, more pronouncements about change, when 39 recommendations that resulted from previous tragedies in personal care homes were not followed up on, when previous concerns raised by members in this House were not followed up on, when concerns raised by patients and residents were not followed up on? When the minister and the government took over another personal care home in 1989 on demand because it was a labour dispute, how can we have any assurance that the pronouncements by this minister, without a comprehensive plan and a review of the department's handling, how can we have any confidence that the situation could possibly improve yet?

Mr. Praznik: Mr. Deputy Speaker, as I have referred I believe in Question Period before and certainly responded to media requests, I have put in place an individual today who is reviewing for me the operation and making some recommendations on how we can improve our service within the ministry. As well, I would remind the member that in our personal care homes across the province families of people who are in those facilities are in those facilities on a daily or weekly basis. There are always issues that arise from time to time, but generally speaking, we have a very good personal care home system in our province.

Ms. Jean Friesen (Wolseley): Mr. Deputy Speaker, the federal government is offloading responsibility for labour force development, but the Manitoba government does have a choice of accepting complete devolution as Alberta and New Brunswick have, or of a co-management agreement which maintains jobs across Manitoba, retains the sense of a national vision and brings a broad range of skills to the planning process, and which has been accepted by Newfoundland and is under discussion right now, according to new information in British Columbia and the Yukon.

I want to ask the Minister of Education why, according to a recent bulletin from the federal government, Manitoba is rejecting the co-operative opportunity that co-management offers.

Hon. Linda McIntosh (Minister of Education and Training): The whole process of negotiating with the federal government and the provinces has been a bilateral one, province by province, each province negotiating individually with the federal government rather than all the provinces together bargaining and negotiating for one set formula for across the nation. The reason for that, Mr. Deputy Speaker, is very obvious. Each province will have its own needs, its own way of addressing items. The goal for each province has been, and the goal for Manitoba definitely is, that we wish to negotiate the very best opportunities for Manitoba, the very best kinds of funding arrangements with the federal government that we possibly can, and we will do that in the best interests of Manitoba in a made-in-Manitoba solution that will suit us best just as the other provinces negotiate something that suits them best.

Ms. Friesen: Could the minister confirm that the real reason that Manitoba has rejected co-management is because the co-management agreement in Newfoundland provides for labour force development boards to include not just business but labour and education and that that is the real reason that this government is rejecting that approach, because it is an approach that they have rejected over the last five years?

Mrs. McIntosh: No, Mr. Deputy Speaker.

Ms. Jean Friesen (Wolseley): Mr. Deputy Speaker, could the minister explain how, in the agreement she is negotiating, client confidential personal information will be protected when the administration of labour market programs requires access to Employment Insurance files which are linked to Revenue Canada files?

Hon. Linda McIntosh (Minister of Education and Training): Mr. Deputy Speaker, we have a team of very capable negotiators working on this entire package for us, and we should have details ready to indicate to the member very soon as to exactly how we are going to be going about enhancing and improving the way in which this service is delivered in Manitoba. I assure her that implied in her question is an indication that she thinks these things are of no consequence to us, and in that she is totally and absolutely incorrect.

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Ms. Marianne Cerilli (Radisson): Mr. Deputy Speaker, I have been asking this government to explain why they have cut the Shelter Allowance for Family Renters Program by 20 percent when it helps over 1,500 families a year with a rent supplement of on average $125 a year, which helps them to avoid going to food banks, to have increased security and a better standard of living, including housing.

The minister has claimed there is poor uptake in this program. I want to ask the minister if he has been advised to read the Children and Youth Secretariat early childhood working group report, which recommends proposing and promoting the SAFFR program and that would allow families to do the very things I have just talked about, have increased money for food and have a better standard of housing.

Hon. Jack Reimer (Minister of Housing): Mr. Deputy Speaker, the program that the member is alluding to, the SAFFR program, somehow the member is alluding to the fact that money has been taken away from this program. The money that is allocated to this program is based on applications. If applications go down, naturally there is not as much money that is spent in this program.

Now, when we are setting up the objectives of the budget, we look at the previous year's applications. We use those figures as a basis for putting in for our budgetary considerations. At the end of the year when we look at the amount of take-up on this particular program, if there is not the amount of people that have been designated by the projections, then naturally the amount has gone down. So it is not a decrease in the funding that has gone. It is just that there are not as many applicants that have taken advantage of the program.

Ms. Cerilli: Mr. Deputy Speaker, the minister did not answer my question, but I want to--

Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order, please. I would ask the honourable member to put her question. There is not time for a statement prior to her question at this time.

The honourable member for Radisson, with her question, please.

Ms. Cerilli: I want to ask the Minister of Family Services why this recommendation to promote the Shelter Allowance for Family Renters Program so that we will increase the uptake was not included in her Children First strategic plan, their document which is supposed to be the accumulated reports of the working groups from the Children and Youth Secretariat. Why are they cutting this program, rather than implementing the recommendation from the working group?

Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable Minister of Culture, Heritage and--no, that is going way back.

The honourable Minister of Family Services.

Hon. Bonnie Mitchelson (Minister of Family Services): Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. You were going back to good old days when you made that comment.

I want to thank my honourable friend for that question and indicate that, rather than members of the opposition talking and discussing and yelling across the floor while my colleagues are trying to answer questions, if they had listened very carefully and very intently, they would have heard the Minister of Housing explain very clearly how the program works. It does work well for those people that apply for the program.

I do want to indicate too that many of the new initiatives, if we could get on with passing the Estimates and on with the business of the House that is at hand--pass the Estimates and look at new programs that are going to benefit children and families through new initiatives through the Child and Youth Secretariat and with the co-operation of all departments.

Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member for Radisson, with her final supplementary question.

Ms. Cerilli: Mr. Deputy Speaker, I want to ask the Premier: Will he admit that this is a $250,000 symbol of how this government is dealing with poverty, to claim one thing, to have reports that recommend to expand and promote programs, and in the budget to cut those very programs?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Mr. Deputy Speaker, the answer is: Absolutely not. What I think the member for Radisson fails to realize is that you put in money in demand-driven programs for the money that you expect to be spent. In Pharmacare, for instance, we pay all the bills that come in and what we put in the Estimates is the estimate of what we expect to spend, but if, in fact, more is required, more is spent, because it is--[interjection]

Here we have people opposite who are so concerned with symbolism that they do not deal with reality. If there are applications for shelter allowances that meet the criteria, they will be approved and the money will be spent. So you do not budget for more money than you expect to spend. You budget for what you expect to spend, and if more is required, more is put in. It is a totally demand-driven program. We have a member opposite who does not understand that. Maybe some of her colleagues who have been in government can explain that to her.

The fact of the matter is, this is absolutely a reflection of what is intended to be spent, and further still, if there is less demand, it is because people are having greater incomes and therefore have less dependence on the shelter allowances, and that is exactly, exactly what we want to see in this province is people's incomes rise, their standard of living rise, and therefore less dependence on government programs, not more dependence like the members opposite want. [interjection]

Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): I do not think she believes you, Gary.

Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Mr. Deputy Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Health. Pneumococcal pneumonia is a potential threat to thousands of Manitobans. In Manitoba, persons infected by the age of 65 spend an average of 15.6 days in the hospital due to this infection. This is the second highest rate of hospitalization in Canada, and the infection can have a mortality rate that runs as high as 40 percent. A vaccine is available, yet Manitoba has no plans for a vaccination program.

The simple question to the Minister of Health is: Why not?

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Mr. Deputy Speaker, I understand that currently the vaccine is provided at no cost to patients who have a chronic medical condition and whose physician does request it. The larger question, of course, is are we planning to get involved into a large-scale immunization program. I understand that our people within the department who manage these are having discussions now and looking at the benefits of such a program, so it is under consideration within the ministry.

Mr. Lamoureux: Mr. Deputy Speaker, will the Minister of Health at least approve a vaccination program to protect the health of residents, in particular in areas such as our nursing homes?

Mr. Praznik: Mr. Deputy Speaker, as I indicated to the member, this particular vaccine is available at no cost to any individual in this province whose physician requests it because it fits with their medical requirements. The consideration of having even a limited or large-scale vaccination program is one that is not necessarily taken as an easy decision to make. There are a lot of factors that fit into that. Obviously, you have the potential of inconveniencing and there is always some risk with vaccination to vast numbers of people. I understand Ontario is the only province that has launched that to date, and we are looking at that program. It is under consideration, but it is not just an easy decision to make.

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Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member for Inkster, with his final supplementary question.

Mr. Lamoureux: I wonder if the Minister of Health can indicate to the House in terms of when does he anticipate that we will be hearing from the Department of Health whether or not Manitoba will in fact have a vaccination program, so that in the long term our health care needs will be met into the future and there is also the potential saving of considerable dollars.

Mr. Praznik: Mr. Deputy Speaker, as I pointed out to the member, there is always a host of factors that have to play into that type of decision. The medical expertise within my department, they are considering a proposal now to do such a thing. When they have worked through the process and have a recommendation for me, then we will make a decision.

Mr. Gord Mackintosh (St. Johns): Mr. Deputy Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Justice. The sheriff's officers in the Department of Justice have been concerned for some time now about a lack of government response to their fears about staffing levels, equipment, protocol, training. There has been some attention to this issue both in the local media and we raised a question last week in this House, but the issue came to a head, I think, when we saw the police more frequently being called in to do, at public expense, the work of sheriff's officers.

My question to the minister is--and this is further to his answer last week that he was not about to interfere even in providing this House with numbers of recommendations implemented for their safety: What role did the minister have in calling a special meeting between management and sheriff's officers on Friday afternoon?

Hon. Vic Toews (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Mr. Deputy Speaker, although I specifically asked no one to meet, I was very pleased that my senior staff, as a result of questions raised in this House, went to speak to the sheriff's officers to ensure that there were no outstanding issues that could not be addressed immediately. I understand that meeting did occur between some of my senior officials and the sheriff's department--very pleased to see that happen, and I hope it continues to happen.

Mr. Mackintosh: Would the minister confirm to this House that the meeting was not about employee safety but was about the government's issue of image, because the meeting was called to issue a gag order and threaten the employees that, if they spoke to the media or MLAs, there would be disciplinary action?

Mr. Toews: Mr. Deputy Speaker, that is one of the most irresponsible accusations that I have ever heard. If that member for St. Johns wants to go and visit the sheriff's officers today, he is free to do so. If members of the media wish to speak to sheriff's officers or to senior officials in my department, they are welcome to do so. I have been very open, very frank with the media indicating exactly where we are in terms of the recommendation. I am very pleased to see the progress that has been made. There is always time for more.

You know, I want to say if there is any concern at all about the process that has been adopted, there are Workplace Safety and Health independent officers who can go in and make that assessment. I would welcome any inquiry by Workplace Safety and Health in that respect.

Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member for St. Johns, with his final supplementary question.

Mr. Mackintosh: Well, then, I will follow up by asking the minister: Who are Manitobans to believe, the people, the sheriff's officers who were at that meeting and reported that, or the minister?

Mr. Toews: Frankly, this is a member who has really no concern about those officers' safety. I want to say here on the record--

Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member for St. Johns, on a point of order.

Mr. Mackintosh: I ask you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, to consider, I ask the minister to consider his remarks right now, and I ask the minister to consider tackling the issue rather than the messenger and withdraw those remarks that reflected on my purpose in bringing this very serious matter of personal and public safety to the Legislature.

Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable Minister of Justice, on the same point of order.

Mr. Toews: Mr. Deputy Speaker, I have no objection to the message; it is just that the messenger is not very accurate.

Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member did not have a point of order.

Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable minister, to conclude his remarks.

Mr. Toews: Without wanting to engage in partisan politics, I want to assure this House that the safety of public servants, who are doing an important job, is my primary concern.

He has made certain accusations in respect of the involvement of sheriff's officers and police officers. I want to indicate that that is an ongoing role and will always be an ongoing role for police officers. If he wants a complete briefing on that aspect, he can go to see any one of the senior officers in my department to explain why police officers are involved in providing security in certain situations. That is a situation that has existed as long as I can remember. It continues. We have supplemented the number of sheriff's officers by I believe it is 10 part-time sheriff's officers to accommodate fluctuating needs.

I want to say, Mr. Deputy Speaker, I care about the sheriff's officers, I care about the safety of the public.

Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (Swan River): Mr. Deputy Speaker, in a letter to Louisiana-Pacific dated March 24 from Mr. Larry Strachan, he spells out that wood wastes not contaminated with resin or hazardous material may be used for livestock production operations. He also says that the livestock area must be 50 feet away from water and that the area not cause pollution to surface water. I will table those letters.

Given that direction from Mr. Strachan, can the minister explain why his department has not stepped in to prevent the wastes that are being dumped in a sensitive area, that being the NE 31-35-26 where material is being dumped in a slough?

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Environment): Mr. Deputy Speaker, I thank the honourable member for the specifics provided in the preamble to her question. We will examine that exact site, and if any remediation is required, that remediation will be carried out.

Ms. Wowchuk: Given that the directive says wood wastes contaminated with resin cannot be used for livestock bedding, I would like to table this manila folder for the minister and share with him some of the material that is being put into the site. I would like to tell the minister that this material is--[interjection] These are clearly pieces of processed material. I would like to ask the minister why his department is allowing material to be dumped in a slough which is full of cattails and will soon be the site of ducks and geese nesting. Why is he letting material covered with resin be put into these sites?

Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order, please. Could I ask the honourable member--I would not say that you were displaying it, but the product that you have tabled would be a little difficult to table. I think that your end result was that you wanted to get it to the minister. If you wanted to just pass it to the minister rather than tabling it, not yourself but the page, but rather than tabling it so that we do not have to take it into the record. So if the page would just take it to the minister.

Ms. Wowchuk: I would be happy to have the minister have them. There are three copies if other people would like them.

Mr. McCrae: Mr. Deputy Speaker, I assure the honourable member that neither I nor the Environment department has any intention whatever of allowing contaminated substances or materials to be deposited in environmentally sensitive places. So, as I said in answer to the first question put by the honourable member, she has given us specific information, which is something that is appreciated--it was not done that way last time around--and we will be very happy to follow up this question.

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Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member for Swan River, with her final supplementary question.

Ms. Wowchuk: Mr. Deputy Speaker, given that this is a very serious matter for the people in the valley, for people who live on the reserves downstream who are concerned about their water supply, will the minister tell us why his staff is not taking action when this site was reported last week on Wednesday and on Saturday this material was still being deposited? When are you going to start taking some action and protect the water?

Mr. McCrae: Mr. Deputy Speaker, I will, along with the Environment department, examine the details of the information we have already made available with respect to the various sites where this type of material is stored. We will look into the matter to see if we are talking about an additional site, and if that is the case and there is toxic material--I remind the honourable member that the material we were talking about previously has been found to be nontoxic and natural in its properties--if the honourable member is raising something different and new today, that indeed would be a different and new matter, and we would certainly look into it with all vigour.

Mr. Tim Sale (Crescentwood): Mr. Deputy Speaker, unfortunately, we learned recently that the Waskada greenhouses, from which a lovely ripe and flavourful tomato was presented to each member in the House last year by, I believe, the honourable Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism, is in receivership and that it is possible that the family involved may lose their farm as well.

Could the Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism please tell the House why his department did not get actively involved in assisting this excellent product to find the markets that it deserved in Manitoba? Why was his department not actively engaged in this?

Hon. James Downey (Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism): Mr. Deputy Speaker, let me at the outset say that the information the member brings to the House is inaccurate. The Department of Industry, Trade and Tourism along with the Department of Rural Development have been working very aggressively to try and find options that would be helpful for the RCS Greenhouses in the Waskada community. There would be a great desire to have that operation operating and providing produce.

Mr. Sale: Mr. Deputy Speaker, will the minister confirm that the company is currently not meeting its obligations and is in fact in default and that the family is at serious risk of losing their farm and that at this point he is talking about closing a door long after the horse is gone?

Mr. Downey: Mr. Deputy Speaker, let me again indicate to the member that there is a series of conditions that developed as it related to the greenhouses. I can tell the member as well that there have been many community people working to try to find alternatives. Also, I can assure the member that there was a stay of proceedings that was introduced as it relates to the Farm Debt Review Act which put the whole issue on hold for a series of time, and there were no alternatives that could, at the particular time, be brought forward that would have anything happen but what has happened.

Ms. MaryAnn Mihychuk (St. James): Mr. Deputy Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Education.

Changes to the capital school bus formula means that local school divisions are responsible for replacing their bus fleets and lifts the already extended usage limit of 15 and a half years. This downloading means that we will see even older buses on our roads, higher property taxes and greater safety concerns.

Will the minister tell us: Is she still recommending the use of minivans to replace school buses to transport students, despite the safety concerns raised by divisions such as Lakeshore School Division No. 23?

Hon. Linda McIntosh (Minister of Education and Training): I have never recommended the use of minivans.

Ms. Mihychuk: Mr. Deputy Speaker, my second question to the minister: Will the minister confirm--and given that April is Mathematics Education Month, I have a mathematics question for her--that this program will in fact cost the Winnipeg School Division over $2 million and that this will come from property taxes or programs for children, from classrooms or property taxes?

Mrs. McIntosh: No, I will not confirm that.

Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member for St. James, with her final supplementary question.

Ms. Mihychuk: Well, I do not think that is really a problem-solving answer, Mr. Deputy Speaker, but it was not a short question.

An Honourable Member: You want a long answer, sweetie?

Ms. Mihychuk: Mr. Deputy Speaker--

What did she say?

An Honourable Member: . . . sweetie.

Ms. Mihychuk: What I want is a direct answer and for her to come forward and tell Manitobans that this program is another downloading and more manipulation of the budget numbers.

Mrs. McIntosh: I would warrant you cannot get much more direct than yes and no, but if she does not think that is direct, perhaps she could give me a new definition of being direct.

I say to the member that we are now providing for school divisions the amount of money equivalent to the purchase of a bus. We used to buy the bus; we now give them the amount of money they require equivalent to the purchase price of a bus. They can now choose whether or not to purchase the bus, or they can redirect the money to something else if they feel they would like to do that.

As well, we are now providing for urban school divisions busing grants for students, kindergarten to Grade 6, which we never used to do before. We will also provide it for Grades 7 and 8 if the school divisions decide they wish to bus students in that particular arena.

So we have not, as the member indicated, done anything detrimental. Rather, we have actually, I believe, helped improve a situation.

Mr. Stan Struthers (Dauphin): Mr. Deputy Speaker, last fall Manitobans were treated to the spectacle of the deputy of Natural Resources claiming $7,300 in restaurant, liquor and lounge bills and claiming to do it in the employ of the Province of Manitoba. The government's response was to assign the investigation of this appropriateness or not to the Clerk of the Executive Council.

My question for the Minister of Natural Resources is: Why is no report being presented to the people of Manitoba regarding the appropriateness of these expenses?

Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister of Natural Resources): Mr. Deputy Speaker, that will be provided.

Mr. Struthers: Instead of covering up, why does this minister not ask the Provincial Auditor to investigate this matter instead of taking part in a cover-up that was begun last fall?

Mr. Cummings: Mr. Deputy Speaker, perhaps the member might want to reserve his opinion until he has seen the report.

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Mr. Stan Struthers (Dauphin): Mr. Deputy Speaker, when will that report be ready for Manitobans?

Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister of Natural Resources): Mr. Deputy Speaker, I will undertake to make sure that report is made available.

Mr. Doug Martindale (Burrows): Mr. Deputy Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Native and Northern Affairs. Recently the minister and I both attended a public forum at the Indian and Metis Friendship Centre. The forum was organized by aboriginal women and the focus was on combatting poverty. The Minister of Native and Northern Affairs suggested that one solution to the problem of poverty was to have a garage sale. This was met by outrage by the people who were present. Notwithstanding the fact that the government may go ahead on this, could the Minister of Native and Northern Affairs tell the Legislature and tell poor aboriginal Winnipeggers and Manitobans how having a garage sale is going to solve the problem of income poverty?

Hon. David Newman (Minister responsible for Native Affairs): Mr. Deputy Speaker, I am glad that the honourable member for Burrows was present on that Saturday afternoon for a long and very, I felt, meaningful day, where I am sure we all learned a lot. One thing that I learned was having a garage sale in the way that it was presented met with public disapproval of several members in attendance. The idea was not a traditional garage sale, but the idea was to have products donated by manufacturers and others who had products that were worthy of citizens of Winnipeg which would then be--the whole process would be managed by the people in the community and the proceeds would go to the benefit of the people in the community so they learn entrepreneurship, organizational skills and get revenue.

I might say, after a few vocal participants indicated displeasure with that idea, after the event was over, a number of people came up to me and staff and indicated that was a good idea and they would like to participate in it.

Mr. Deputy Speaker: Time for Oral Question Period has expired.