Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): My question is to the First Minister (Mr. Filmon). Group after group and person after person last evening commented about the autocratic and bureaucratic nature of the policies contained within the regional health legislation being proposed by this Premier and this Minister of Health.

Many organizations and many individuals spoke about the need to give more faith to the people and less faith to the government-controlled bureaucracy. They called on the government to bring in elections of regional representatives on their regional boards. The Union of Manitoba Municipalities, the Manitoba Association of Registered Nurses, the Federation of Labour, the Manitoba Women's Institute, the United Church of northwestern Ontario and Manitoba called on the government to put more faith with the people and less faith with the government bureaucracy.

I would like to ask the Premier, will he now overrule his Minister of Health and provide elections for representatives on regional health boards here in the province of Manitoba?

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition is aware that Bill 49 was introduced in this Legislature last June. At that time I spoke with numerous people and organizations to let them know that since Bill 49 was extremely ground-breaking legislation which paves the way for reforms that will bring about improved health services for Manitobans, it would be a good idea for those interested parties to have a look at the legislation, get back together with myself or my department this fall and we would listen to their concerns. That is what we have been doing.

The committee is another very democratic function that we have as part of our legislative process, but through the course of my consultations, some issues have indeed emerged and I gave notice to the committee that it would be our intention at the close of the presentations to bring forward amendments to meet some of those concerns that have been raised, concerns about a reference in the legislation to the five principles embodied in the--

Madam Speaker: Order, please.

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Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): A point of order, Madam Speaker. I believe Beauchesne Citation 417 indicates that the question should be brief and to the point. The minister does not have to answer the question, but the Leader of the Opposition very clearly asked the Minister of Health whether or not they would introduce elections of board members. The Minister of Health has not even remotely dealt with that question and has dealt with history surrounding other issues. [interjection] If the Premier (Mr. Filmon) wants to answer the question, he can answer the question.

Madam Speaker, last night in front of the committee virtually every group asked for elections of board members--

Madam Speaker: Order, please. I believe the honourable member for Kildonan had raised his point of order, and I would remind him this is not a time for debate.

Hon. Jim Ernst (Government House Leader): My point exactly, on the same point of order, Madam Speaker, that the member for Kildonan was in fact debating the issue because he is not getting information or a statement out of the minister that he wants. Beauchesne is also clear that the minister may not answer the question.

Madam Speaker: On the point of order raised by the honourable member for Kildonan, the honourable member for Kildonan did not have a point of order. It is clearly a dispute over the facts.

Mr. Doer: Madam Speaker, again, individuals talked about the autocratic nature of this bill and I would hope that the Premier (Mr. Filmon) would have the leadership to overrule and tell Manitobans today that he is going to overrule his Minister of Health and provide for the democratic principles of elected representation for the regional boards.

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): I have a new question to the Premier, a question I have asked him before.

Glenda Doerksen, a nurse in Dauphin, Manitoba, spoke about the quality of health care and talked about the unfairness of one individual who would have the right to undo fair labour practices that have taken place in this province over a number of years. She cannot believe the antidemocratic nature of the proposed amendments.

I would like to ask the Premier, will he overrule his Minister of Health and provide for legitimate worker rights to vote for the bargaining unit of their choice, which is a convention that these governments of Canada and Manitoba have signed under the ILO?

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): The honourable Leader of the Opposition certainly has his nerve, Madam Speaker, to talk about democratic principles. When we have to impose on future generations the necessity to repay hundreds and hundreds of millions, nay, billions of dollars of borrowing that these honourable members opposite imposed on Manitobans, to that extent democracy is robbed from future generations and that should be borne solely by honourable members opposite. Does the honourable Leader of the Opposition, who holds to these sacred democratic principles, also suggest that the regional health authorities ought to be given the power to tax the people?--because that is a natural conclusion to the argument the honourable member is making.

Madam Speaker, we spoke about bringing forward amendments to deal with the five principles embodied in the Canada Health Act to deal with issues related to faith-related organizations, and the honourable Leader of the Opposition asked about the powers of the commissioner. We felt that we want the powers of the commissioner to be there for the duration of the transition to the regional health authorities, and we are proposing to bring forward an amendment to bring a sunset clause to the activities of the commissioner.

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Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Madam Speaker, this side is in favour of elected representatives onto the regional boards. That side is in favour of power to the bureaucracy, power to the Premier, power to the Minister of Health and no power to the people in terms of regional health. That is the fundamental difference on this bill.

I would like to ask the Premier a further question. People talking about the autocratic nature of this bill cited examples of volunteers being driven out of the health care system by some of the nature of this bill. The United Church went on to say that this bill is reminiscent of laws passed in former Communist regimes. Is that the kind of autocratic dictatorial bill that this government wants to pass, or does it want to share power with the--[interjection] If the Premier wants to answer the question, he can get up and answer it.

Or will he give the regions and the people of Manitoba the right to elect the regional boards as is the belief of everybody presenting briefs before the committee last evening?

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): I know that the Leader of the Opposition likes to get carried away with his rhetoric, Madam Speaker, but it becomes worrisome when I think that he starts to believe his own rhetoric.

I would like to read to you, Madam Speaker, a clause, an amendment to The Labour Relations Act brought forward by the New Democrats in 1984, as follows: Except as provided in subsections 5 and 6, no decision, order, direction, declaration or ruling of the board or any panel of the board shall be questioned or reviewed in any court and no order shall be made or process entered or proceedings taken in any court, whether by way of injunction, declaratory judgment, stay, certiorari mandamus, prohibition, quo warranto or otherwise to question, review, prohibit or restrain the board or panel or any of its proceedings.

Madam Speaker, when the book about hypocrisy was written, it was written about honourable members opposite.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. Prior to recognizing the Leader of the official opposition on a new question, I would like to draw the attention of all honourable members to the public gallery. There was an omission made. We have fifty-three Grade 5 students from Linden Christian School under the direction of Mrs. Michelle Grove and Mrs. Christine Bartel. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable First Minister (Mr. Filmon).

On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you this afternoon.

Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the official opposition.

Mr. Doer: Thank you, Madam Speaker. The position of the government is no vote for the workers and no vote for the people, and we know that position quite well.

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): A new question to the Premier: Yesterday I was again perplexed with the answers of the Minister of Justice when she answered a question raised in this House when she asked this side of the House what she thinks individuals are doing for the other five days that they are actually in the community on intermittent sentences.

Madam Speaker, we believe that the other two days of that seven-day period should be spent in jail if that is what the court orders in intermittent sentences.

I would like to ask the Premier, is it still the policy of his government today that persons sentenced to intermittent sentences in the province of Manitoba will not serve jail time?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Speaker, I realize that the Leader of the Opposition has difficulty understanding, and I will repeat for him what has been said many times before. That is that we had a riot at the jail in Headingley this spring, a riot that put out of commission our largest penal institution, a riot that caused us to have to do things that we would not have chosen to do. Those decisions had to be made in the wake of that, not having the ability to just simply transfer people into another institution, because we do not have a spare one sitting around in case we get a riot that destroys the institution. We therefore had to have decisions made by the people in Corrections, the people who are charged with the responsibility to deal with those situations.

Obviously, in the case of those who were not able to be accommodated in accordance with the sentences that were issued, we were dealing with circumstances, as has been said by many experts, people who were obviously not considered to be a danger to society because they are allowed to be in society, to be in the community for the other five days of the week. If they were considered a menace or a danger, they obviously would not have been given those kinds of sentences. All of this has been well documented, has been well explained. It is only the Leader of the Opposition who, for his own cheap politics, chooses to ignore this.

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Mr. Doer: Madam Speaker, I would like to ask the Premier whether he has met with his Minister of Justice to determine the communication breakdown in her department over to the judges and the Crown attorneys months ago--we do not know exactly the date--and has he met with the Minister of Justice (Mrs. Vodrey) to determine whether there have been choices available to the government? If the government has the public will and the political will to have persons sentenced to intermittent sentences, serve jail time, is there not the ability of the government to find ways in which jail time and imprisonment will be a legitimate deterrent as articulated by judges in sentences? I would like to ask the Premier, has he felt it has been a priority to meet with the Minister of Justice, and has he explored the options available in the public interest?

Mr. Filmon: Again, the question has been well responded to and thoroughly canvassed. The opposition, of course, Madam Speaker, have demonstrated their incapacity to come up with satisfactory alternatives. The member for St. Johns (Mr. Mackintosh) came here and said that he had spoken to Saskatchewan and found out that they could have been put in Saskatchewan. Well, of course, these people who are going to be in the community here in Winnipeg for five days of the week are going to go to Saskatchewan for the weekend. Perhaps they could play the casinos while they are there.

You know, these are the kinds of stupid ideas that are put forward by the opposition and, of course, we have a phone call placed to the Deputy Minister of Justice and find out that the member for St. Johns did not talk to anybody in authority. He talked to a political assistant who gave him an answer that he wanted to give, full of garbage, and that is what this whole debate has been about, is garbage, because the Leader of the Opposition wants to make cheap politics, along with his friend from Wolseley.

Mr. Doer: Madam Speaker, the Premier can blow as many gaskets as he likes in this House and feign indignation, but the only garbage is that the Crown attorneys and the judges did not know about the government's policy and this Premier and this Minister of Justice are responsible.

I asked the Premier a very simple question. Has he met with his Minister of Justice to review the lack of communication from this minister to the Justice department, the Crown attorneys and the judges, and has he met with this minister to determine whether--if there is the political and public will--capacity for persons sentenced to intermittent sentences, capacity can be achieved so that intermittent sentences and jail time would go together as judges have sentenced here in the province of Manitoba?

Mr. Filmon: Madam Speaker, there is a political will, of course, to deal with the situation for the best interests of all the people of Manitoba and that is precisely what is being done. That is why the Minister of Justice has been dealing with all of the elements of Corrections, including representatives of the workers, the union and the workers who are vitally involved and obviously very concerned that they ought to be kept in safe circumstances. It is why the Minister of Justice has made a commitment to $10 million to renovate and to upgrade and to change the configuration of Headingley Jail. That is what is being done for real capacity needs, not the kind of hot air that is being given towards the issue by the Leader of the Opposition. It is why the members of the Justice department have been dealing with the situation and with Corrections to ensure that we are doing whatever is necessary and reasonable to ensure that during a transition, while we have the loss of capacity, we are doing what is best for all the people of this province.

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Mr. Gord Mackintosh (St. Johns): Madam Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Justice.

After the minister said there is no space for minimum-security weekend inmates, the member for Burrows (Mr. Martindale) and I inspected Headingley Jail with an escort on Saturday under The Corrections Act, and, lo and behold, there in Annex A were not one but three separated, segregated dorms, all the facilities in working order, including 28 bunks, 48 mattresses and new manual locks in working order on the doors, but the place was vacant.

My question for the minister is, could the minister explain why this facility was unused last weekend and will she put it to use next weekend instead of countermanding the sentences of the judges of Manitoba?

Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Madam Speaker, we have had seven wrongful, scandalous allegations within the past four days. We have now heard an eighth from the member for St. Johns.

Madam Speaker, I also attended Headingley on Monday, and I have a document submitted by the superintendent of Headingley who cites all of the reasons why the annex is not ready to be inhabited. I really wonder, in the two days between when I was there and when he was there, what really he thinks happened to the beds.

Madam Speaker, very clearly the superintendent of Headingley has outlined a number of issues why in fact inmates are not being housed in Headingley, including staffing issues because we do have staff members who have not been able to return to work and in fact some of those staff may never be able to return to work, including priority relief at other institutions, including life safety systems, including food services and other renovations.

We have now had an eighth unsubstantiated wrongful and very scandalous allegation by the member for St. Johns. The evidence flies in the face of what he alleges.

Madam Speaker: The honourable member for St. Johns, with a supplementary question.

Mr. Gord Mackintosh (St. Johns): If the minister wants to maintain that Annex A is not ready, contrary to what we saw, or out of 580 correctional officers she cannot find four, would she then treat this as the emergency she says it is and immediately dedicate the resources to make sure people serve their time? It has been almost half a year.

Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Madam Speaker, I will be looking at Hansard very carefully to see the information the member has put on the record in this House because I believe that members are obligated to put information on the record to the best of their knowledge at the time, and I would find it very difficult to believe that the member actually saw what he claims he saw on that visit to Headingley because when I attended Headingley on Monday that was clearly not the case. The member for St. Johns clearly knows that all locks were not in order, that there is not a food service--

Madam Speaker: Order, please.

Mr. Doug Martindale (Burrows): On a point of order, Madam Speaker, I was also at the institution and the person who gave us the tour told us that all the locks were in working condition and they had keys, contrary to what the minister is trying to tell the House.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member for Burrows does not have a point of order. It is clearly a dispute over the facts.

Mrs. Vodrey: I will read from the information provided to me from the superintendent of Headingley. Members ask for order because every time I provide them with the true evidence it touches a sore point for them and they really have a hard time hearing the facts.

I will take the time to read the section on life safety systems, staff safety systems: The current physical structure of Annex A does not include the installation of surveillance cameras or sound alarm systems. These systems are regarded as essential life safety systems. Currently, as part of the installation of new officer work stations in the main building, these types of systems will be in--

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member for Kildonan, on a point of order.

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Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Madam Speaker, I think Beauchesne's is very clear. You cited the rule yesterday that if the minister is choosing to read quotations from a letter that she ought to, for members of this House, table the contents of that letter.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. For clarification, it is not my understanding the honourable minister was reading from a private letter, which is Rule 34 in our House, it is my understanding she was reading from another document.

The honourable Minister of Justice, for clarification.

Mrs. Vodrey: I am certainly prepared to provide this following Question Period to members opposite. It will explain to them clearly what the issues are. It is a fully open document, and I will be pleased to share the opinion of the superintendent of Headingley.

Madam Speaker: The honourable member for St. Johns, with a supplementary question.

Mr. Mackintosh: How much longer do Manitobans, the victims and judges have to wait for this minister to put in place the necessary resources, if that is what she says it takes, if we are to believe her, to get the facilities available so that sentences can start to be executed in this province once again?

Mrs. Vodrey: As I have explained in the House, there are a number of issues. First of all, there are the physical developments and capital changes which have to occur at Headingley and which are in the process. There is also the workplace health and safety issue.

We do have correctional officers who are not able to return to work and some who, in fact, may never be able to return to work or who may not be able to return to work in the places that they worked before.

In addition, as the member well knows, we have now a group of correctional officers in training. While we are attempting to provide that training as quickly as possible, they have to be fully trained in the safety and security procedures.

Now I have said that we expect that those people will be able to in approximately a month. It has taken some time because there is also priority of issues which must be dealt with. We have inmates in other institutions. We are trying to deal with staffing across the province.

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Madam Speaker, we in this Chamber are responsible for a quarter of a billion dollars in medical expenditures as part of the Health budget. We have learned from the paper today, as we often learn, as we learned from leaks, about the government's privatization. We learned about, the public learned about privatization from a leak. We learned about the deinsuring of optometrist visits by a leak. We learned about the deinsuring of chiropractor visits by a leak. This government does not tell us what its plans are.

Will the minister today table in the House what the government's plans are for the new billing system that the government is proposing to pilot or to implement in this province so that members of this Chamber, who are responsible for a quarter of a billion dollars of expenditures, will know what the government is planning and the public will know what the government is planning in this regard?

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, I will be in a position to make known the results of discussions that my department has been having with a clinic here in the city of Winnipeg in due course, but true to form again, when the honourable member for Kildonan reads something in the newspaper that is totally erroneous, he takes the bait.

Mr. Chomiak: Madam Speaker, will the government today guarantee that this new system that the government is secretly planning and secretly conducting negotiations with and not advising the public, will he guarantee that no patient will be deprived of the right to have a second opinion and to visit another physician at their own free will? Will he guarantee that the people of Manitoba will not be deprived of that right?

Mr. McCrae: About the only thing in the report that I read today in the newspaper that was not totally erroneous was a comment, ironically, made by the honourable member for Kildonan, which was that second opinions can often be good medicine. So, in that regard, I can give the honourable member the comfort that he is looking for.

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Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Madam Speaker, my final supplementary to the minister is, will the minister advise the House today whether the minister, who last year gave qualified approval to the deinsuring of physical examinations for men, will the minister advise this House today whether or not a final decision has been reached on that, whether he is still negotiating that, whether he will reveal to the public and whether this has any relationship to the new pilot project that the minister is not telling us about?

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, the proposal about which the honourable member speaks is a proposal that was made some time back by the Manitoba Medical Services Council, to which I gave extremely conditional approval. That approval remains conditional. Until I can be satisfied that it would be in the best interests of Manitobans, it will remain that way.

Mr. Gary Kowalski (The Maples): Madam Speaker, my question is for the Minister responsible for the Status of Women (Mrs. Vodrey). Last Friday at a committee meeting of the Public Utilities and Natural Resources committee held to review the annual report of the Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation, the president and general manager, Mr. Zacharias, informed the committee that, although females make up 50 percent of the workforce at MPIC, they make up zero percent of the senior executives of MPIC.

My question for the minister responsible for the Status of Women: Is this percentage carried over into the other Crown corporations in Manitoba, zero percent?

Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister charged with the administration of The Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation Act): Madam Speaker, as was pointed out at the committee that the member references, certainly the corporation recognizes its shortcomings in that respect and is quite willing to point to the fact that there are in fact a number of female employees who are rising through the ranks.

Mr. Gary Kowalski (The Maples): My question to the Minister responsible for the Status of Women: What is she doing throughout the public sector to assure that throughout Crown corporations and the public sector females rise to senior positions in government?

Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister responsible for the Status of Women): Madam Speaker, I will be pleased to provide some more detailed information to my colleague. In fact, the dramatic increase in the number of women who have taken more senior positions and have found assistance as they move through the ranks of government, there has been certainly a very conscious effort to make sure that women are well aware of the opportunities, are certainly encouraged to participate. One of the difficulties that is well known on behalf of women running for public office, for instance, is that often women do not believe that they are encouraged to do so. One of the important things is to make sure women are aware of the fact the opportunity is there, the encouragement is there to try to put their names forward.

Mr. Kowalski: My question to the minister is, what is she doing to make women feel that they are wanted in senior positions in the government?

Mrs. Vodrey: Madam Speaker, I and the Women's Directorate make every effort to provide and assist where possible with any information for women regarding what may be available to them. We also attempt, for the whole community, often partnering seminars, to encourage women to move onto boards and commissions, go into promotional competitions, run for public office. This has been a very significant effort. The numbers are now starting to speak for themselves where women are in fact taking the challenge.

Ms. Jean Friesen (Wolseley): Madam Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Education. A private school in Manitoba has used its newly established dress code to force the withdrawal of a kindergarten student who for family, cultural and religious reasons could not meet that dress code.

Could the Minister of Education, who is under The Education Administration Act responsible for all schools in the province, tell us whether she has investigated this matter and whether such types of discrimination are to be tolerated in Manitoba schools?

Hon. Linda McIntosh (Minister of Education and Training): Madam Speaker, as the member knows, 87 percent of our independent schools are faith-based religious schools established because parents are frustrated with their inability to have religious training in the schools. I was interested in reading the comments from the member for Broadway (Mr. Santos) yesterday who builds a very strong case for the establishment of Christian schools that would ensure that the students are subject only to their parents' desires for spiritual needs and not other external influences, so I would imagine she would like to talk to him as well about this issue.

I indicate that with this particular instance, my officials are in communication to examine the mission statement of the school, because schools do have the right to set their own criteria for religious purposes so long, of course, as they abide by the Human Rights Code, and so we will be looking to see that those two correspond or, seeing that there is no violation of the Human Rights Code in this instance, by virtue of parents seeking their religious rights to schooling.

Ms. Jean Friesen (Wolseley): Madam Speaker, could the minister tell the House whether, when a private school applies for public money or receives public money, that money is granted contingent on a commitment to abide by the Human Rights Code?

Hon. Linda McIntosh (Minister of Education and Training): I am very surprised that the Education critic would not know the answer to that, given all the research she has done through these years on the establishment of independent schools. I know that the member opposite does not believe in the establishment of Christian schools having any kind of support from the public, that they should not receive--like children who we had here in the gallery earlier, should not be supported by taxpayers, even though she knows the rules which indicate that schools which abide by our Manitoba curricula, hire certified Manitoba teachers, write our standards exams, apply by all of the rules that are there in terms of human rights, et cetera, that if schools will do that for a period of two years they then may apply for partial funding--eventually it will be up to 50 percent of what public schools' operating costs are--with no money for buildings or anything like that, but they are then eligible to apply. If they fit the criteria, they are allowed to receive partial funding. If they do not fit the criteria, no, Madam Speaker, they do not receive funding and the member knows that as well. We have many nonfunded schools in Manitoba. She knows that.

Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister of Environment): Madam Speaker, I would like to reply to a question taken as notice yesterday.

The member for Crescentwood (Mr. Sale), in his own kind and generous manner, left the impression that there may have been contracts awarded to Leipsic Communications that were not tendered or were not the lowest bid and, in fact, that is wrong. Tender as of April of this year was awarded on tender to Leipsic Communications for $49,000, and there were 15 months starting January 9, 1995, where there were two tendered contracts where they were the lowest tender for a total of $67,000.

Mr. Tim Sale (Crescentwood): Madam Speaker, in early 1995 during the run-up to the last election, the Minister of Agriculture had his picture taken along with a number of others, including members of the St. Laurent community, handing over a huge mock cheque for $30,000 to be used in the expansion of the fish processing plant in St. Laurent. The minister subsequently won the polls in that community.

Could the minister tell the House why a cheque was promised and photographed for the front page of local papers, but apparently after the election was never paid, resulting in substantial losses for the Metis Federation, the fish processing people and several individuals?

Hon. Harry Enns (Minister of Agriculture): Madam Speaker, there are many occasions where various departments of government, including such committees as sustainable development or the REDI program, where we support a project, indeed to the extent that is indicated by the honourable member, but there is a due diligence process; certain conditions have to be attached. In this particular case the cheque was only available to that community if in fact machinery was installed, if the promoters of the proposal carried out very specific, prescribed conditions to avail themselves of that kind of support. Well, those conditions, I say with considerable regret because yes, it was in my constituency, has been a lifelong ambition of mine to be able to resolve the utilization of rough fish in a lake like Lake Manitoba--those conditions were not met and the cheque was not delivered to the community.

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Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Crescentwood, with a supplementary question.

Mr. Sale: Is the minister telling the House that he was in such a rush to get elected that he had a cheque photographed for the front page of the paper, that none of the due process requirements for issuing the grant had been made, but he was prepared to have an election cheque so he could win an election, and to heck with due diligence before the election, we will do that later, Madam Speaker?

Mr. Enns: Madam Speaker, I am telling the honourable member in this House that I do have some experience in getting elected.

Mr. Gerard Jennissen (Flin Flon): Madam Speaker, my questions are for the Minister of Highways and Transportation.

Yesterday afternoon on the Norwood Bridge a semitrailer loaded with crushed automobiles accidentally tipped the load it was carrying on top of a passing pick-up truck. Obviously this created a great traffic hazard. My question is, is the minister's department investigating whether or not this accident was related to the height of the load carried by the semitrailer?

Hon. Glen Findlay (Minister of Highways and Transportation): Madam Speaker, certainly I can confirm that the police are investigating it, and whether my department is involved in it or not I will inquire and let the member know. But clearly there was an accident, the load tipped and proper investigative authorities are after it.

Mr. Jennissen: My final supplementary is: Given that a year ago my colleague from Transcona virtually predicted that these types of accidents would occur unless regulations relating to transportation of goods were tightened--and I will table the correspondence--is the minister prepared to examine the need for restrictions governing load height?

Mr. Findlay: I can assure the member that the department, in the interest of safety on the roads for all users of the roads, is constantly trying to be sure that we are on top of all the things that are happening. I also want to remind the member that there are tens of thousands of trucks out there and tens of thousands of jobs involved, and we cannot taint the whole industry because maybe one incident happens.

I can comment to the member that safety is a primary function of our department, to be sure that the loads are handled properly, drivers are properly trained and educated and the trucks are in proper operating condition. That is our incentive to be sure we have safety on our roads.

Ms. Marianne Cerilli (Radisson): The truckload of crushed cars that dumped on the Norwood Bridge yesterday was headed for a place like General Scrap and Car Shredder. Residents in Radisson and the surrounding area of General Scrap and Car Shredder are subject to frequent explosions that sound like bombs when the cars that are crushed have gas tanks remaining in them. Not only is this noise disturbing for the area but damaging the housing in the neighbourhood.

I want to ask the Minister of Environment, can the minister explain why the environment licence for General Scrap and Car Shredder has been under review for five years and as a result the inadequate old licence has allowed the ongoing explosions for this neighbourhood?

Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister of Environment): I think the member might well take some satisfaction from the fact that this operation and its licence have been under ongoing review that does not exempt them from the conditions to protect against explosions and removal of fuel.

The other thing that the member probably is well aware of, but should be I think clearly placed on the record here, and that is from time to time car shredder companies will receive vehicles in which the people doing the delivery may in fact deliberately have encased something that might cause an explosion as, i.e., an old propane tank or things of that nature. Certainly it has been my impression that the operation is doing everything it can to reduce the explosions.

Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Radisson, with a very short question.

Ms. Cerilli: Given that the inspections and documentation after the fact have been proved ineffective, can the minister tell us when we will see a new licence which will include better inspections and penalties for when these explosions occur and disrupt this residential area?

Mr. Cummings: There was a committee that did some additional--

Madam Speaker: The honourable Minister of Environment.

Mr. Cummings: Madam Speaker, I am waiting for the indicator light on my mike.

Nevertheless, there has been an ongoing review of the industry, let alone this particular site, plus the member knows full well that there has been a significant desire for change at that site moving to eliminate an awful lot of the waste that is being generated and is creating some problems in terms of storage. That in itself has created significant controversy within the community, but it has caused the Department of Environment to be working very closely with General Scrap. I want to assure the member and the community that we will continue to work with them to mitigate and eliminate any problems.

Madam Speaker: Time for Oral Questions has expired.