Mr. Speaker: The hour being 5 p.m. time for Private Members' Business.
Point of Order
Mr. Gerry McAlpine (Sturgeon Creek): Mr. Speaker, I beg leave of the House today to bring forward a resolution that is on the Order Paper, No. 70, and because of the urgency of this I would like to ask for leave of the House to bring this forward. It is the resolution with regard to the armed forces, the Air Command Headquarters, No. 17 wing, being transferred to Ottawa. Because of the economic impact that this is going to have on the residents of Manitoba, especially the immediate area around Sturgeon Creek, I would ask for the leave of the House to move this resolution forward so that we can go forward on behalf of all Manitobans and all members of the House with a united force to make our point to the members of Ottawa and the M.P.s in government.
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Mr. Speaker: The honourable member has prefaced his remarks with a point of order, and I am going to deal with it as a point of order. I see the honourable member for Inkster (Mr. Lamoureux) is up. We will call it a point of order.
Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Second Opposition House Leader): Mr. Speaker, I am sure that had the member and the government been sincere with what the member just put on the record, the government House leader would have approached the opposition House leader. In fact the Liberal Party does have a resolution that is there before us right now. If the government was in fact sincere in wanting to deal with this issue, I would imagine the government House leader would have approached us and maybe we could have accommodated each party or members of the different parties in the Chamber, because we equally have very important resolutions that deserve to have the debate.
So leave is going to be denied because this government does not want to co-operate on dealing with serious issues before this House.
Hon. Jim Ernst (Government House Leader): Mr. Speaker, firstly let me say that I think it is highly inappropriate that the House leader of the second opposition party would impute motives to the respect of this issue and the question of sincerity of the member for Sturgeon Creek (Mr. McAlpine).
Mr. Speaker, this is private members' hour. Under private members' hour any member in this House may stand up and seek any kind of leave and seek any kind of consensus within this House whenever he feels like it, or she for that matter. This is private members' hour. This is not government business. This has nothing to do with the government House leader. It has to do with a private member who wants to deal with a private member's issue.
Mr. Speaker: That is correct. What we have before us right now is the member for Sturgeon Creek asking for leave to bring forward Resolution 70, CFB Winnipeg.
Is there leave at this time to bring forward Resolution 70?
Some Honourable Members: No.
Mr. Speaker: No? Order, please. I have to hear this. Is there leave?
Some Honourable Members: No.
Mr. Speaker: Leave is denied.
PROPOSED RESOLUTIONS
Res. 1--Youth Drop-In Centres
Mr. Gary Kowalski (The Maples): I move, seconded by the honourable member for Inkster (Mr. Lamoureux), that
WHEREAS youth crime in Manitoba continues to be substantially above the national average; and
WHEREAS the suicide rate among young people has almost doubled in the last thirty years; and
WHEREAS teenage pregnancies in Manitoba are well above the national average; and
WHEREAS unemployment among our young people is averaging close to 20 percent; and
WHEREAS the student drop-out rate in Manitoba schools is 17 percent, one of the highest in the country; and
WHEREAS the provincial government has cut funding to education in the last two years despite the fact that opportunities for young people entering the workforce depend on obtaining a quality education; and
WHEREAS among the education programs cut were those which provided students with extra-curricular activities; and
WHEREAS young people at a recent Youth Forum hosted by the MLA for The Maples and at the mayor's Youth Task Force identified the need for youth drop-in centres to give kids a safe place to spend their spare time; and
WHEREAS youth drop-in centres will give young people an outlet for their energies, will give them a place to hang out other than the streets, and will facilitate the creation of role models for young people by having someone kids can talk to at these centres.
THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the Legislative Assembly urge the Minister of Justice and the Minister of Education to consider working co-operatively to increase the number of youth drop-in centres in Manitoba; and
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the Legislative Assembly urge the government to be more creative in the use of public facilities to provide spare-time activities for youth.
Motion presented.
Point of Order
Hon. Clayton Manness (Minister of Education and Training): I would ask whether or not this resolution is in order given the fact that it calls upon government to significantly increase spending in support of what might be a worthy cause, Mr. Speaker, but that it goes some distance, although it plays kind of loose with the wording. I recognize that. So, in the sense that it is calling upon government to increase the number, that is a funding issue. That is a calling for more funds, and I submit that this resolution is out of order.
Mr. Speaker: On the point of order raised by the honourable Minister of Education and Training (Mr. Manness), the operative words are in the resolution, that they "urge" the Minister of Justice and the Minister of Education to consider working co-operatively, and on the second BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the Legislative Assembly "urge" the government to be more creative in the use of public facilities.
Therefore, the honourable Minister of Education and Training does not have a point of order.
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Mr. Kowalski: The genesis for this resolution started April 9, 1994, when in this building we had a forum for 60 young people from throughout the province--from the suburbs, from the core area, from reserves. Amongst other things that I have reported on in this Chamber and the Listening to Youth report that I have circulated to all members of this House, the young people told us that one of the things they need is a stronger connection to the adults in their life and a stronger connection to their communities.
Also, they said that the recreational facilities, the sports programs that were good in the '50s and '60s were not appropriate for their generation, and as a result there were not sufficient recreation opportunities for them.
This practice of holding forums to listen to youth, I was glad to see that the City of Winnipeg mayor, Mayor Thompson, continued the practice, as I believe the Justice minister continued to follow the lead that we set by meeting with young people and listening to them. When the mayor formed her youth task force of young people, afterward she released a report in October of '94 called Youth Speaking Out About Youth Violence. It is a very interesting report done by the young people of this city, some of whom were gang members--again, a broad cross section of young people.
Amongst their recommendations was No. 8 on page 12 of that report saying: to encourage more creative use of public facilities, to provide spare time activities for youth and create safe places for youth using vacant housing, storefronts to provide recreation and youth services. To quote the report further, it said, there was a lot of discussion about why the use of public facilities for youth centres might be problematic for the public.
Some of the issues raised by the members of the task force were: some people may not want to have these sorts of programs and facilities in their neighbourhood; they had to find places that were reasonable and accessible for everyone; when kids hang out in malls and storefronts people get nervous; intolerance in the community for that generation of people.
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They also said that people say it is a good idea as long as they keep it away from us, but then they noted that at Unicity Mall in the city of Winnipeg they have a drop-in centre that has not been a problem. As a matter of fact, it has been cited by this government as an example of a good program. As a result, many adults have come onside and supported that drop-in centre at Unicity Mall.
The mayor challenged the young people to describe very specifically what sort of facilities they wanted to see made available. The youth responded by suggesting a number of criteria. They wanted a place to do the type of activities that they wanted to do, not that adults wanted them to do. Included in that was pool tables, ping-pong tables, things that kids were interested in, everything from skateboarding to listening to music. It should be an active, lively place where young people felt welcome.
One of the things that I got from both my youth forum and reading the mayor's youth task force report is that young people want a direct role in planning and creating this type of facility as opposed to adults who create facilities that they believe are what the young people want. They said they want basketball courts, baseball, floor hockey, and they cited Rossbrook House as one of the types of facilities that has made a big difference in the community.
The mayor asked the young people, what would they be willing to do? How would they be willing to participate? The young people told the mayor that they are prepared to help with the organization of running the facility, organizing the programs. They would work as volunteers at the centre, use funds from different programs to create, and they noted that government could not be expected to do everything, so the community should play a role, and the government's role in this is the role of leadership.
That is why, when I was presented with a petition by 400 young people from the Ken Seaford Junior High requesting a youth centre in our neighbourhood, I formed a committee of young people, and they were the ones that planned and organized a youth drop-in centre in our neighbourhood. It was them and the young adults, people between the ages of 18 and 25, who volunteered to supervise the young adolescents in our community.
As a result, we received over 40 volunteers who were raised in The Maples and had a commitment to our community. These young adults formed a partnership with the young adolescents, and the relationships that developed during the period of time that the drop-in centre started in August, and it has continued on, has been beneficial to the whole community.
Qualitatively, I could tell you of accounts of young people approaching these young adults and talking about things that they might be hesitant to talk to their parents about, everything from teenage pregnancy, that they had been approached by a boyfriend or a girlfriend to take drugs, fear from gang members.
Maybe they did not feel comfortable talking to their own parents, maybe they did not feel comfortable talking to other adults, but these young adults in our community, they built a relationship with it. As a result, I believe many things that would have resulted in the justice system or would have ended up in the Child and Family Services caseload did not.
In fact, that has been borne out by my colleague from Kildonan (Mr. Chomiak) who, at the same time, developed a youth drop-in centre in his area. According to John Wiens, the superintendent of Seven Oaks School Division, they have statistical information that the caseload in Child and Family Services during the time that that drop-in centre operated decreased greatly. In fact, the small amount of wages paid to the people who operated that drop-in centre was far surpassed by the savings in money in the caseloads that would have gone to Child and Family Services.
In The Maples drop-in centre they averaged 70 to 80 kids each day, but going as high as 121 on some nights, and these kids loved the facility. Again, there was not a lot of government funds. This was community members, young adults coming together and serving the community. As a result many of the young adults have used that experience on their resumes, as work experience in their programs in social work, in recreational studies. So it was beneficial not only to the young people but also to the volunteers who worked in it.
Also, I have talked to the community constables in that area. Constable Ron Bell, who works out of the Citizens for Crime Awareness office in The Maples, could attest to the fact that this summer was a little bit better in The Maples, there was less fear from youth crime in our neighbourhood as a result of a youth drop-in centre, doing something that is effective. This is the sort of effective solution that may not be simplistic and appeal to the political rhetoric that the government tries to address about youth crime, but it is effective.
It has been shown to be effective in the drop-in centre that the member for Kildonan created, and it has been effective in The Maples. That is why I am calling on all members of this House to support this resolution so that this government could show leadership and follow the example of Unicity Mall, The Maples youth centre, and the Edmund Partridge youth centre as a program that has worked, is effective and has not only a direct impact on youth crime and violence but on Child and Family Services caseloads, and is a benefit to all.
So I call on all honourable members to support this resolution.
Mr. Manness: Mr. Speaker, I treat this as a serious resolution, although I call into question why it was the Liberals and the NDP would not see fit to bring forward a resolution that certainly is as immediate and, I dare say, more immediate.
I feel I know the member for Sturgeon Creek (Mr. McAlpine), who wants to provide a forum to deal with some very important issues dealing with Air Command in our city, has been prevented from bringing forward the resolution.
Mr. Speaker, I read the resolution in detail, and when one goes through all the WHEREASes, certainly the member for The Maples (Mr. Kowalski) builds upon the points and lays out the facts and tries to portray through the WHEREASes that the government is to blame for the increase in crime in our province, for the fact that our youth seem to have, generally speaking, more time on their hands and therefore are more apt to find themselves into trouble. I would like to say that this resolution, as I see it come forward, and it has some redeeming qualities, still typifies typical Liberal social engineering to the nth degree.
As I listen to the solutions that the Liberal Party seems to have in the area of education, in the area of crime, not the least of which, of course, is the gun control legislation they so heartily support, it appears to me that the Liberals honestly believe you take these institutions of democracy, you bring forward a bill, you try and enshrine yourself, envelop yourself around them and believe that if you pass a law, that if you find a few more dollars, everything will be okay. Then you walk away and tell yourself what a good job you have done and try and leave society believe that you have done your part.
Mr. Speaker, here is another resolution that speaks toward doing exactly that.
An Honourable Member: It would not cost a cent.
Mr. Manness: The member says it would not cost a cent. Mr. Speaker, I can accept that. It does not necessarily cost a cent, and yet these are only going to be successful if indeed a number of circumstances come into play, none of which we can guarantee in this House, nor can we guarantee by way of this resolution. What the member is asking us to do is build four walls and a roof, or if not to build them, to put into place, to rent them, to lease them and to put in equipment accordingly. The member believes that if we do that, all is well and good and we will solve the problem-- nonsense, absolutely nonsense.
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Mr. Speaker, this is what is needed if indeed his solution is about to work, and no resolution can guarantee that. He needs role models. He needs a role model, for example, someone by the name of Minish Norang [phonetic], a former street kid himself who now, I understand, takes the lead or maybe is the resident in the Teen Stop Jeunesse in St. Vital. Funds are, by the way, put there by, you know what, Manitoba lottery revenues coming through the special funded community agency side of the Lotteries organizers.
It is not money that is making that work. It is not building. It certainly is not this resolution. It is a role model, and somebody who has been there understands and knows, but it needs something more than that. Why is it today, when we look at where the state of society is compared to where it was decades ago, how come so much more idle time? Why is that?
The member for Inkster (Mr. Lamoureux) talks about The Maples, and I was in one of the northwest high schools, Sisler High, and I was speaking to a Grade 11 history class, and a student had to leave promptly at five to three. He had to leave the class, and this was a very good student, and I asked the teacher, I said, where is he going? To another class? She said, no, he has a full-time job. Our best student has a full-time job. Not that I am advocating that be the case, but the reality is, there is an awful lot of part-time work for individuals. That used to be the way it was in urban settings in our province. That is the way it used to be.
Mr. Speaker, you know what? We cannot pass a law here, we cannot bring in a resolution that is going to in any way entice our young people, who have idle time on their hands in many cases, to go and look for something that is going to consume some of that time. A law will not do it, and the member taunts me by saying, ah, his solution is--meaning me--go look for jobs. All I am trying to point out--how is the old saying, the devil will find work for idle hands. That is the saying. So this institution in a free society cannot force our young people with idle time to go out and find work, but I will tell you, that will do more than this resolution.
So, Mr. Speaker, we need more than that. There was a time in the urban setting that the institutions of the community, the service clubs, the churches and the community clubs, all one has to do today is--if anybody thinks there is a shortage of places for people to come together and meet, the city is full of community clubs. It is absolutely full. But nothing upsets me more when I approach the community centres today and you look at the windows and they are covered with bars. They are covered with bars, but there is not a shortage of places to meet. There is not a shortage of places for youth to come together in our society today.
So, Mr. Speaker, the resolution then is not going to deal with that, is it? No, it does not. But the Liberals' simplistic way of thinking is that you bring a resolution forward, you find some more money for a facility, you put some more amenities into it--I think I heard the member talk about pool tables, card tables and whatever else--and it will all work. It will not. I wish it would, because that would be so easy to fix.
Well, the resolution covers the waterfront. It says, youth crime continues to rise. It talks about suicide rate, it talks about teenage pregnancies, it talks about unemployment. I thought that was what we were trying to fix, and the member says the solution to all of that is that the Legislative Assembly urge the government to be more creative in the use of public facilities, to provide spare-time activities for youth. Ergo, that is the solution to all of the former.
Mr. Speaker, our society realizes how important it is that we try to have facilities and that we try to have activities for our youth. Long before the member for The Maples (Mr. Kowalski) was in the House and long before I was here, our forebears understood how important it was. What they did, of course, through their various institutions over many, many years was, they provided, and the facilities are there today.
If one wants to go into basements and gyms associated with churches, they are begging for activity. If one wants to go today into the community centres in our cities, in our towns, they are begging for youth and activity. They are there. What is missing is not facilities, what is missing of course is leadership. What is missing is role models from the community, not community leaders such as ourselves who have accepted the call to be here and pass resolutions. That is easy. What is difficult is to find those people who are going to give their time and indeed who are going to show by example that their way of contributing to society is worth following.
Mr. Speaker, we cannot pass that in this House, and once the member, and the Liberals particularly, learn that, these resolutions I think will begin to diminish somewhat, because this is, in my view, doing nothing but trying to create false hope. It is trying to say to those--and I take very seriously the commitment made by the youth who were in attendance at that forum, because I think many of them probably are the ones who are sincerely trying to strive to find solutions. They are searching and they know something is wrong. In their minds, this might be the solution, but those of us who are older should know better. We should know what the solution is. It is more time by those of us who want to give that time to the community, and indeed, it is not as simple as following the resolution.
Mr. Speaker, I thought it was pretty important that we put forward, certainly, our party's comments to the extent that individuals come forward. Individuals from the community who either have been there or, secondly, are the role models or, thirdly, have programs, their time to offer, this government will stand in support of it. We have done so through Lotteries revenue, the same Lotteries revenue the members of the Liberal Party particularly criticize. They say, where is it going? To what use is it going?
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Well, Mr. Speaker, a small portion of it is going to the very youths that the resolution speaks to, yet more important than the money is the individual to whom you direct the very scarce resources so that they then can lead the community.
Thank you very much.
Mr. Gord Mackintosh (St. Johns): Mr. Speaker, I want to give just some background as to how I have come to conclude that the objectives set out in the resolution are certainly supportable, although I think there has to be some changes to it, but it is easier for one to talk to care providers and read books and think up all kinds of solutions to rising violence among our youth and rising crime.
Shortly after I was appointed Justice critic, I began consultations and going across the province, up and down, all sides of the province, meeting with youth to determine what they thought the solutions to rising violence in their generation were. There was a consistent theme that was not evident in the literature and not as evident from the service providers. They kept saying over and over again, we need a place to go and something to do. Over and over again, I heard that. I heard that from church groups. I heard that from individuals who were at risk. I might say, Mr. Speaker, that I probably met with over a thousand youth now. Our caucus decided that it was important that we reach out to youth organizations and reach out to individuals and go out and meet with the youth of the province and involve them in a real way in finding solutions.
Whether it would be youth from the Youth Centre or from Marymound or whether it be from high schools or church groups, we were there and we listened. So the objective of the resolution is, I know, based on a need identified by youth themselves. That is, there has to be a place to go and something to do more than there is.
We think about what has happened in Manitoba over the last several years alone. The government has, as a priority, created these huge gambling casinos in working class neighbourhoods of Winnipeg and, by doing so, has created what now is in the evidence an increased risk to youth in Manitoba. Indeed, it just makes sense that if the parents are at the casino, the parents are not providing a nurturing relationship with the youth in their families.
I believe that it is the loss of nurturing relationships in our families which is a key factor leading to what is now evident in the crime statistics and in the antisocial behaviour reported by caregivers and educators and parents and other people in the community and indeed by other youth.
The government has created these great structures for gambling, enhancing the risk to youth, and then it says to youth: How come you are in trouble? How come you are being more violent than your generation has been before?
Well, there are linkages, and when the government goes as a priority and it creates these great gambling halls, it should at the same time, if it does see that as an objective in pursuing its gambling initiatives, have an obligation to provide services for youth. It has an obligation to use its fundraising ability and its ability to make change in the community in a positive way to allow such funding and to spur youth programs and not, as the Minister of Justice has said, leave the youth programming, such as SKY, to be funded by garage sales.
We cannot have garage sale justice in Manitoba.
Now, when we are talking about the places to go and the things to do for youth, the immediate response by adults, I suggest, has been, let us open up a gym somewhere. I say, well, that is a good first start, but we have to get way beyond that--way beyond that. Every time there is a facility that is simply a gym, there should also be the chem lab, there should also be the art room, there should also be the music room, there should also be the computer lab, because not every kid out there is inclined or wanting to get involved in organized sports, for example, so we have to expand our thinking about what kinds of facilities we have to encourage.
In speaking with the youth in my community--and I am working with youth at St. John's High School to establish a drop-in centre in that community--they are saying, we also want things like employment counselling, we want other kinds of support services, we want help to understand other challenges that we face in the community and in our families, so we have to have multi-dimensional, multi-service facilities.
It was interesting in visiting Inkster School in my constituency not long ago, the principal said, you know things are not the way they have ever been in this community, things have changed even in the last couple of years, the challenges that are coming in the doors of that school are like never before. There are children in need. There are children at risk as never before. Things have changed in this province, and as I have said on many occasions, in no small way due to this government's policies on creating the conditions that breed crime.
It is the policies of this government which result in statistics like: among the highest poverty rates in Canada, the highest drop-out rates in Canada, the highest number of children in care in Canada, among the lowest minimum wages in Canada, that breed antisocial behaviour, that breed family breakdown. It is all related. There is a cause and effect, and the government has to understand that.
It was interesting that a youth service provider said to me not long ago, I wonder how many of the problems that we are facing in Manitoba with youth right now are due to service cutbacks to youth only a few years ago. So it is one thing to deal with the symptoms, but the focus has to be on addressing the causes.
When we look at opportunities for youth and places to go with something to do, I think we are dealing with a little bit of both. We can perhaps help those youth at risk. We can prevent the youth from falling into the at-risk category, and, at the same time, I think we can prevent the development of idle time; we can develop peer groups that are positive.
Now, the problem with the resolution is that it is so fuzzy. It says that the Legislature "urge the Minister of Justice (Mrs. Vodrey) and the Minister of Education (Mr. Manness)," I want to first of all deal with that. I do not know why Justice and Education are singled out.
It is the responsibility of many other ministers of this government to deal with the challenge of rising youth crime and violence. For example, I do not understand why the Minister of Native Affairs (Mr. Praznik) is not listed there. I think that does not speak highly of the insights of the Liberal caucus into the needs in aboriginal communities, because aboriginal communities are coming down here. Unfortunately, that is what has to happen; they have to come down here. They went to the SAG Conference, and they said, look what we are doing. We need help. Our communities are at risk.
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Mr. Speaker, the resolution also neglects to put in there the Minister responsible for Recreation. But the northern, the forest camps, the Recreation forest camps proposal, it is critical that that be expanded. I think that another problem with this resolution is that it asks the government to work co-operatively to increase the number of youth drop-in centres in Manitoba. It provides no mechanism by which that is to be done. If you are going to do that, let us at least suggest how you do it.
Now the NDP, in its alternative throne speech, has proposed such a mechanism, Mr. Speaker, and that mechanism was to establish a youth places grant program to enable communities to establish drop-in centres and co-ordinated activities for youth. It is important that there be a grant program, No. l, that there be monies available.
I know, and I know the member for The Maples (Mr. Kowalski) knows, of the difficulty in securing funding, and it often does not take much funding because you can often have a co-ordinator, sometimes even part time, but that can spur so much volunteer work. It just needs the spark to light the fire, and other than a grant system, you have to enable youth participation, because the resolution does not rule out some adult-imposed programming on Manitoba's youth.
I was at a conference on the 1st and 2nd of December, Mr. Speaker. It was under the youth strategy project sponsored by, I believe it was, federal monies. It was called Bridging the Gap, and it was attended by youth, many of them, most of them perhaps, youth at risk and service providers for youth. I took great advice from that conference, where they said time and time again: Empower us; let us work with you; give us decision making; do not put us aside and say that we know better; we are the ones on the front line. Indeed one of the greatest honours I have had since being elected was to be the subject of a video presentation at that conference, where I said, as I said to the students at St. John's High School, I will not get a youth drop-in centre for you, but I will work with you. So the message is from youth to adults, do not do it for us, do it with us. So that has to be a part of this resolution.
I also want to comment that, of course, the objectives of this resolution are a very small part of the solution, and I have talked about how the government has in no small way created the conditions which are breeding crime in this province. This is a very, very small part of the solution.
We also, Mr. Speaker, have to look at the violent culture that we have created, and we as legislators have to be always mindful of what can be done to reduce the notion now apparently ingrained in Canadians that violence is the way to deal with conflict.
So, Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the member for Rupertsland (Mr. Robinson), that the first RESOLVED clause be amended by deleting the words after "urge" and substituting "the government to consider implementing the youth places grant program as proposed by the NDP to ensure adequate funding to spur locally controlled programs and places for youth throughout Manitoba and to ensure youth involvement in designing and managing the programs and places."
Mr. Speaker: On the resolution moved by the honourable member for St. Johns, I am going to take this matter under advisement, and I will come back to the House with a ruling on that one.
The honourable member for Sturgeon Creek, to continue debate on the resolution.
Mr. Gerry McAlpine (Sturgeon Creek): Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to stand and to speak on this resolution with some reservations, of course. It is obvious to see what the Liberal agenda is in terms of looking at the bigger picture as far as Manitoba is concerned when they insist on bringing in a resolution that is a Band-Aid issue rather than debate the real issues of the economy in this province and to allow my resolution to come forward.
I have some real concerns about this resolution that the honourable member for The Maples brings forward. The real issues in this resolution we should be talking about are jobs. I think that jobs are first and foremost in this economy. I would ask the member for The Maples, in his resolution, what the 4,000 families in Sturgeon Creek, working at the air force base are going to do with their children when they have to move to Ottawa, if that is not an important issue. He would sooner set up a youth centre. I think he is missing sight of the real fact here. I think that although I have had some experience with youth drop-in centres, he goes on to give the impression that the Liberals are the pioneers of youth drop-in centres.
This is something that my wife Jeanie and I have been involved in for seven and a half years. I think that we have had a little more experience than the member for The Maples or the member for Inkster (Mr. Lamoureux), as they are referred to in this resolution.
Mr. Speaker, the member for St. Johns (Mr. Mackintosh) also references a very interesting aspect in terms of the benefits of youth drop-in centres when he references crimes of youth and makes reference to the fact the impact that lotteries have on the youth crime and what the youth centres are going to provide. I would remind the member for St. Johns that it was his government, his NDP government, under the leadership of Premier Ed Schreyer, that brought in the lotteries in 1973. They even went as far with their movement on lotteries to buy the sites, where the Club Regent and McPhillips Station are now located. I do not know what you would call that.
I realize that hypocrisy is maybe not a word in this House that is enjoyed by this House, but I cannot think of any other word that we could look at. I think these are things that we have to really look at when we are talking about the real issues and what the impacts are going to be because nobody is more concerned with the youth in the community than I am, and my involvement in my constituency with the youth element in terms of what they are doing. To say that the resolution is going to provide the leadership--I do not know what they are suggesting, if you build it, they will come.
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I think the honourable Minister of Education (Mr. Manness), probably in his reference to the fact that the facilities that are out there today are not lacking in any way. Community clubs have facilities second to none in this city, and in many cases they are laying dormant and being used for bingos rather than youth centres. Community clubs were designed to fulfill the means of providing activities for youth, and to say that this resolution is going to offer something for the youth in the community, I think that the member for The Maples (Mr. Kowalski) is sadly mistaken when he is suggesting through this resolution that if government takes the lead that the youth are all of a sudden going to rally around and come to these youth centres, well, I can tell you that will not happen.
My experience with the youth and the community--involvement that I have had over the past seven and a half years with my wife and other people in the community--has been one where the community takes the responsibility rather than government. I think that is first and foremost in all aspects of dealing with the real issues, because the community knows what the real issues are in their community, and they vary from one community to the other.
It is interesting too, Mr. Speaker, that through our involvement with the young people--and they talk about organization and providing the leadership--one of the things that we do in terms of letting the community know or the young people know is about the drop-in centre or the youth centre that we have at 1970 Ness Avenue and has been there for a number of years and has been moved from other locations. This is I think about the fourth location that this youth centre has been, and it is sponsored by the Focus on Youth Incorporated, which my wife and other community-minded people have been involved in over the past seven years.
We have been involved not only with the aspect of volunteering, my wife and I spend probably Friday and Saturday nights more often throughout the winter months at this youth centre than we do anywhere else. But I think as far as the youth are concerned, they tell us that if they want the organization to succeed, the youth are the ones that have to take the lead on this--not politicians, not teachers, not police officers, but the youth themselves.
We have found that when we go to the schools to let the young people know that we exist--and we are open from 7 p.m. till 11 p.m. on Friday and Saturday nights during the winter months--we go to the schools and we go through the administration at these schools to let the message out through the administration to the students that this is open, the students tell us that if you want anything to get through to the students, you do not go through the administration, you go through the student council, because if you go through the administration the students will not even hear it. They are not interested. They are interested in what the youth can do for themselves, and if it is endorsed by the youth, then they will participate, but they will not participate if the administration and governments and police officers are going to be overseeing this and controlling this. Youth have to take the responsibility themselves, Mr. Speaker.
So when the member for The Maples (Mr. Kowalski) and the member for St. Johns (Mr. Mackintosh) suggest that by government taking the lead in providing this facility, putting more government money, and they are not talking only small amounts of money here, Mr. Speaker, we are talking significant amounts of money, I think we have to address other issues before we address the real problem.
Certainly the youth in the community are well served through the activities that are in the schools today. We have a large number of caring teachers that give of their extra time, and we have community-minded people who give of their time through coaching hockey and all athletic sports, bingos and just places to hang out at community centres.
I think, Mr. Speaker, that those are the real things that we have to look at, but I think it is not for people like the member for The Maples or the member for Inkster to say that this is a resolution that should be adopted and should provide the lead as far as government is concerned to provide the drop-in centres to give the kids a safe place to spend their spare time.
There are lots of safe places for these people to spend their time. It is a matter of looking for it. It is a matter of trying to find because they do not have to look very far. Community clubs, community centres, schools in most areas, in any community that you want to go to would be open to these young people if there was an organization and there was a volunteer from the community that would go to the schools and allow them to do things in the vacant gyms that are not being used. To provide a facility, I mean, it is there for the taking and there for the asking. It is a matter of people taking their community responsibility and dealing with it in a community-minded way.
So, Mr. Speaker, I am concerned when the member for The Maples will address a resolution, to think that this is going to be able to be accomplished through a resolution rather than dealing with real people and getting people involved, because that is really what we want to do, to motivate the community, to motivate the people to take the responsibility. As far as the member for The Maples, I commend him for what he has done in terms of setting up a drop-in centre or a community centre for the young people, but I hope that he will continue to work with the community to ensure that they are going to be able to take responsibility for that themselves rather than looking to government to do those things, because that is not what we are looking for. That is not the place for government.
If he thinks that he comes into this Legislature to provide this kind of legislation and not allow the important aspects--I spent seven and a half years in youth drop-in centres, and I have probably made a greater commitment than he has ever made as far as the youth in the community are concerned than he will ever make.
Maybe the member for Inkster might have some questions of that, but that is okay, because I hope that the member for Inkster will continue to question that, because we will never see eye to eye, because he does not understand where he is going. One day he is this way and another day he is that way. I hope that he will have some difficulty understanding what I am saying, because if he does, then I know that I am on the right track.
That is I think what we have to do. If the member for Inkster and the member for The Maples suggest that this is going to be able to be achieved through a resolution, then I think we are on the wrong track.
Unfortunately, it is unfair that the member--
Mr. Speaker: Order, please. When this matter is again before the House, the honourable member for Sturgeon Creek will have two minutes remaining.
The hour being 6 p.m., this House is now adjourned and stands adjourned until 1:30 p.m. tomorrow (Thursday).